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Resetting loader relief valve?


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#1 zuren OFFLINE  

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Posted August 30, 2020 - 06:25 AM

I have a leak at the nuts for the relief valve on my loader so I tightened them. The leak has continued, so I took those nuts off to see what the problem is and partly spun the threaded rod. Then I realized my error...spinning that threaded rod changed the relief setting.

So 2 questions:

1. Can anyone offer a quick tutorial on the proper setting for that valve, and...
2. Is there a good source for the washers/seals that go between those nuts? Mine has very thin, white washers that almost appear to be teflon or similar material. One is partly torn, which is probably the source of my leak.

 

I posted in the Facebook PK group as well, but I'm having problems with my Facebook account and seeing posts.

Thanks!

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Edited by zuren, August 30, 2020 - 09:03 AM.

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#2 KennyP ONLINE  

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Posted August 30, 2020 - 07:17 AM

A picture of the valve will help. Setting the relief usually requires installing a gauge in the line to see what the pressure is.


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#3 zuren OFFLINE  

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Posted August 30, 2020 - 08:50 AM

A picture of the valve will help. Setting the relief usually requires installing a gauge in the line to see what the pressure is.

 

Updated the OP with a picture.

 

As far as a gauge, I found this:

 

https://www.boltonho...ure-test-gauge/

 

Is this what I want, or is a kit better?


Edited by zuren, August 30, 2020 - 09:28 AM.

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#4 MNGB OFFLINE  

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Posted August 30, 2020 - 11:30 AM

Hi Chris all you need is a gauge I linked one in the PM you can connect it to either the in or the out port I'd use the out as its much easier to get at, boy you got that looking so pretty its a shame to use it :wave:


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#5 zuren OFFLINE  

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Posted August 30, 2020 - 03:07 PM

Hi Chris all you need is a gauge I linked one in the PM you can connect it to either the in or the out port I'd use the out as its much easier to get at, boy you got that looking so pretty its a shame to use it :wave:

Got the PM, thanks!  There is a hydraulics store 30 min. from me so I may head up there on Monday.

 

Despite my mess up, this is probably a good thing for me to do.  I saw in the manual that the relief pressure for the loader valve is 1250 PSI, and the 3PH valve is 1000 PSI.  Once I got the loader plumbed in, the sound of the system hitting the pressure limit for the 3PH sounded different, and I was hearing it in front of me, not below.  This makes me wonder if the pressure relief in the loader valve was too low.

 

What should the washers/seals be between the valve body and the first nut, and in between nuts?  As I mentioned, they are very thin and delicate plastic; they look and feel like teflon, nitrile, or some other plastic.  Seems like copper crush washers may be a better option.

 

Thanks! 


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#6 MNGB OFFLINE  

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Posted August 30, 2020 - 04:19 PM

I like the copper better, yes on my tractor with the loader is very fast compared to my others



#7 Cvans OFFLINE  

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Posted August 30, 2020 - 08:16 PM

This is the simple no cost way I do it. From experience I know I do not want to lift more then 250 lbs with a large garden tractor. So I put that amount of weight in the loader and screw out the stem until that amount of weight will just come off the ground. Lock the stem nut and replace the cap. There is a good chance if there is a O-ring on your adjusting stem it is bad and leaking. 

You can also start with the stem out and screw it in until the loader starts to come off the ground. 

I'm always concerned about overloading the front axle and thus the 250 lb limit. 


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#8 zuren OFFLINE  

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Posted August 31, 2020 - 03:33 PM

This is the simple no cost way I do it. From experience I know I do not want to lift more then 250 lbs with a large garden tractor. So I put that amount of weight in the loader and screw out the stem until that amount of weight will just come off the ground. Lock the stem nut and replace the cap. There is a good chance if there is a O-ring on your adjusting stem it is bad and leaking. 

You can also start with the stem out and screw it in until the loader starts to come off the ground. 

I'm always concerned about overloading the front axle and thus the 250 lb limit. 

 

Is your experience with the 250 lb. limit for garden tractors in general, or Power Kings specifically?  Many here have cautioned about lifting too much on a PK front axle.  I think the factory spec is 500 lbs...maybe more?  

 

I like the approach, I just wonder how that may affect the 3PH hydraulics.  If the relief for the loader valve is set to 250 lbs. (which equals XXXX PSI), wouldn't that mean that the 3PH is limited to the same since it is downstream in the same circuit?

 

Thanks!


Edited by zuren, August 31, 2020 - 03:35 PM.


#9 Cvans OFFLINE  

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Posted August 31, 2020 - 07:13 PM

Is your experience with the 250 lb. limit for garden tractors in general, or Power Kings specifically? 

 

Larger garden tractors. My concern is the front axle and spindle strength. Also stability with the narrow wheel base especially when traveling with a load. Your PK might have a heavier axle and wider wheel base. Also if your rear wheels start getting light with a load your probably over doing it. 

wouldn't that mean that the 3PH is limited to the same since it is downstream in the same circuit?

 

Yes and no. Without a schematic of how your tractor is plumbed it would be hard for me to say. Also if the diameter of the lift cylinder is larger on the 3 point or your lifting with a different leverage factor your 3ph might still lift a lot more. Gary (MNGB) might be a better source of info concerning this.  


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#10 Glenn Ayers OFFLINE  

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Posted September 01, 2020 - 03:37 AM

.....................

 

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#11 Cvans OFFLINE  

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Posted September 01, 2020 - 10:03 AM

Good information in that post.  :thumbs:


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#12 zuren OFFLINE  

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Posted September 01, 2020 - 10:48 PM

I spent some time with the tractor tonight after I was able to put together a gauge to test.  I took a trip to a hydraulics store and they had everything I needed.  Here is what I did and my findings:

  • I hooked up the gauge as shown to one of the spool ports on the control valve (see pic)
  • The brochure above says 1250 PSI at 3,300 RPMs.  My K361 tops out at 1790-1800 RPMs with the rev. limiter set as shown, according to my wireless tachometer (see pic of rev. limiter).
  • At 1800 RPMs, I'm getting 800-900 PSI at best; the needle was not steady, so hard to take an accurate reading.
  • I tried to turn the threaded adjuster "in".  There came a point when I simply could not get more pressure to build, and was close to not having enough threads for the cap.
  • I pulled the whole pressure relief assembly apart to check everything (see pic)

So here are some questions:

  1. In the image where I have the pieces laying out, is that the correct orientation of everything?  When I pulled the spring out, the ball and that nipple piece were left laying inside the valve and had to get creative to get them out.
  2. I'm getting 800-900 PSI at 1800 RPMs.  Will I have to bump up that RPM limiter to get more pressure, or could this be an issue with the spring?
  3. According the to PK manual, the rear hydraulics for the 3PH is supposed to have a 1000 PSI relief setting.  If I'm only getting 800-900 PSI on the first relief valve in the system, does it make sense that I'm hearing the loader relief valve open rather than the relief valve at the 3PH controller when I hit the top or bottom limits of the hitch?  If the loader valve is supposed to be 1250 PSI, and the 3PH valve is supposed to be 1000 PSI, I would think they should be independent.

So something is definitely not right, I just don't know if I need to tweak the rev. limiter to increase my RPMS, if that spring has gotten weak after 40+ years of service, something else I'm not considering, some combination of factors?

 

I continue to be open to any and all ideas!  Thanks! 

 

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#13 Glenn Ayers OFFLINE  

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Posted September 02, 2020 - 03:28 AM

Can you explain why your engine is limited to 1800 rpm ?

I've never seen a gizmo like that to limit throttle range on a PowerKing.

It's always been my understanding .. that an air cooled engine should run at full 3600 rpm .. for proper cooling.    I would think that half rpm would result in half hydraulic pressure & flow volume.

 

Of course "my understanding"  could be completely screwy .... It's happened before !


Edited by Glenn Ayers, September 02, 2020 - 03:32 AM.

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#14 zuren OFFLINE  

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Posted September 02, 2020 - 06:43 AM

Can you explain why your engine is limited to 1800 rpm ?

I've never seen a gizmo like that to limit throttle range on a PowerKing.

It's always been my understanding .. that an air cooled engine should run at full 3600 rpm .. for proper cooling.    I would think that half rpm would result in half hydraulic pressure & flow volume.

 

Of course "my understanding"  could be completely screwy .... It's happened before !

 

That throttle limiter on my 1618 has been there for as long as I can remember, and this was my dad's tractor before me.  No one else has anything like this?

 

It looks like there is something similar on my 1614 (the donor for the loader), but on the low end.  I have not checked the max RPMs the 14HP.

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Edited by zuren, September 02, 2020 - 06:58 AM.


#15 MNGB OFFLINE  

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Posted September 02, 2020 - 11:29 AM

Hi Chris as Glenn posted the High R's should be much hiher at least 3400 and yes my tractors have that limiter but they are set up as you noted the pressure is set at 3300 R's you'll find it easy to adjust the PSI at those RPM's. By the way idle r's for the K361 is 1700

Nice gauge set up I have a gauge that looks like it but have never gotten busy and connected a hose and fittings to it maybe after my front wt mount build


Edited by MNGB, September 02, 2020 - 11:31 AM.

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