Jump to content

Garden Tractors and Parts on eBay



Photo
- - - - -

A few questions about my new-to-me Bolens 1220

bolens clutch differential

  • Please log in to reply
49 replies to this topic

#31 Dave in NY ONLINE  

Dave in NY

    New Member

  • Senior Member
  • Member No: 7601
  • 1612 Thanks
  • 589 posts

Posted July 24, 2020 - 05:11 AM

If you are talking about the roll pin seen in your pictures, it serves as a stop to keep the free wheel pin from sliding out of the drive hub you are holding. The broken piece can be replaced, welded, but might not really be an issue if there is enough of a slot left there to hold a spring clip that holds the freewheel pin in place.
  • fildred13 said thank you

#32 fildred13 OFFLINE  

fildred13
  • Member
  • Member No: 99710
  • 8 Thanks
  • 21 posts
  • Location: Cape Cod, Massachusetts

Posted July 24, 2020 - 07:02 AM

Thanks, good to know that the hub does just need to be pulled out by “hand.” I’ll go back at it later and try some different techniques.

Ah so the roll pin isn’t doing anything inside the hub, it’s just to keep the free wheeling pin from sliding all the way through? I’m glad to hear it, but that doesn’t make a ton of sense to me. The free wheeling pin is flanged, and could never possibly pass ass the way through the hole in the hub when inserted through the outside. I’ll have to take a picture of what I’m talking about when I get back in the shop. I must be misunderstanding and hopefully sliding the pieces together wil make it make sense.

Edited by fildred13, July 24, 2020 - 07:07 AM.


#33 Bruce Dorsi ONLINE  

Bruce Dorsi

    Old, but not dead -- yet!

  • Senior Member
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 1525
  • 4932 Thanks
  • 2837 posts
  • Location: New Jersey

Posted July 24, 2020 - 08:22 AM

The free-wheeling pin is normally inserted into the hub from the transaxle side, NOT the outside of the wheel.  ...This is another modification/repair done by a previous owner, and is why there is the hole in the wheel to accommodate the pin. 

 

So far, all the mods/repairs done to your tractor seemed to work, but they all seem to be half-assed repairs to me. ..It would have taken very little time to do repairs correctly, and as original.

 

The roll pin you are questioning was normally not driven into contact with the axle.  ...It only was inserted to the thickness of the drive collar (approx. 1/4"), the rest of the length was above the casting and would retain the free-wheeling pin from coming out of the drive collar.


  • Bolens 1000, WrenchinOnIt, 29 Chev and 1 other said thanks

#34 fildred13 OFFLINE  

fildred13
  • Member
  • Member No: 99710
  • 8 Thanks
  • 21 posts
  • Location: Cape Cod, Massachusetts

Posted July 24, 2020 - 02:31 PM

Thanks Bruce, that makes plenty of sense. I'll work on resetting the tractor to factory setup as I source more parts. It can be hard when you're seeing something the way it is to be able to turn your head around to see how it is supposed to be! Appreciate the assistance.

Meanwhile, I'm hitting a stone wall on this clutch flange. I'm alternating kroil oil soaking session and heating the flange with a map/pro torch to try to get her to turn. Anyone ever have a hell of a time getting the clutch flange free? Any tricks I'm not thinking of? At this point I'm flirting with the idea of finally getting an oxy/acetylene setup for the shop so that I can just pour a lot more heat into the damn thing. I'm scared to apply too much force to it, too, because I'm afraid I might bend the drive shaft. I just don't see any good place to hold it steady other than putting the shaft itself into the vise.

2020-07-24 15.20.16.jpg


Edited by fildred13, July 24, 2020 - 04:19 PM.


#35 29 Chev OFFLINE  

29 Chev

    A Little Off Plumb

  • Senior Member
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 63590
  • 19111 Thanks
  • 6455 posts
  • Location: Ontario Canada

Posted July 24, 2020 - 05:55 PM

The driveshaft assembly can be hard and awkward to hold to remove the front flange once the driveshaft is removed from the tractor.  What I usually do is first lay the driveshaft assembly on a flat workbench with the rear flange at the left side of me and the clutch at my right side in front of me as I am looking down on the assembly.  I use a large pipe wrench to hold the rear from turning at the rear flange where it attaches to the transmission coupling - open the jaws of the pipe wrench so that the flange sits in them snuggly and let the pipe wrench sit under the driveshaft with the handle so that it extends towards you to your left.  This should give you decent leverage so the driveshaft isn't trying to turn and move as you try and loosen the clutch flange.  I use a large adjustable (or the correct size open end wrench should work as well) to go on the two flats on the clutch flange.  I then place a rag over the clutch pulley and while wearing a glove push down on the clutch pulley with my left hand to hold it from moving - glove and rag are for skin protection in case something slips.  The adjustable (or wrench) can be placed on the flats and with the end of the adjustable (or wrench) pointing towards your right - push down on the end of the adjustable (or wrench) and the clutch face should move - turns counter clockwise when viewed from the front to loosen it.  It will be snug but I have never had to heat one yet - of course someone may have used green threadlocker or damaged the threads on yours. I would think that using this method the clutch flange should loosen before you bend or twist the driveshaft as they are made out of some pretty good material.  You may wish to set the driveshaft on the floor instead of a work bench and use a cheater extension on the wrench to gain a little bit more leverage to get the clutch face to start to turn. With the driveshaft on the floor you can put your foot on it to add a little more weight at the clutch end to keep it from sliding around. Be careful as the clutch flange is cast I believe so hammering on it or the threads is not advised.

 

Just suggestions that may you and hoping the clutch flange loosens for you.  


Edited by 29 Chev, July 24, 2020 - 06:00 PM.

  • WrenchinOnIt said thank you

#36 fildred13 OFFLINE  

fildred13
  • Member
  • Member No: 99710
  • 8 Thanks
  • 21 posts
  • Location: Cape Cod, Massachusetts

Posted July 24, 2020 - 07:28 PM

Thanks for the suggestions Chev, I’ll give that procedure a go, because even as tight as I can squeeze the vice, it’s stuck enough that the whole shaft just spins in the vise. I’m not liking the adjustable’s engagement on the flats so I’m running to harbor freight tomorrow for a crescent wrench and then I’ll give this a go. Plus I have a heavy friend coming over who may be able to give me the extra leverage.

Edited by fildred13, July 24, 2020 - 07:31 PM.


#37 fildred13 OFFLINE  

fildred13
  • Member
  • Member No: 99710
  • 8 Thanks
  • 21 posts
  • Location: Cape Cod, Massachusetts

Posted July 24, 2020 - 08:18 PM

Looks like I need a smaller pipe wrench. Without risking sending that spring flying, I can’t quite reach the wrench in there. Do the tool purchases ever stop? And here I was all excited to try tonight.
E0865E3A-5F7A-4D46-9B90-A29AD743F3D6.jpeg

#38 29 Chev OFFLINE  

29 Chev

    A Little Off Plumb

  • Senior Member
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 63590
  • 19111 Thanks
  • 6455 posts
  • Location: Ontario Canada

Posted July 24, 2020 - 08:20 PM

I find it is very hard to clamp a round shaft in vise jaws tight enough to keep the shaft from turning.  One other option might be a good pair of chain vise grips around the outside of the rear clutch flange since it is splined to mate with the shaft but the pipe wrench should give you more leverage to hold the shaft easier.


  • Bruce Dorsi and WrenchinOnIt have said thanks

#39 29 Chev OFFLINE  

29 Chev

    A Little Off Plumb

  • Senior Member
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 63590
  • 19111 Thanks
  • 6455 posts
  • Location: Ontario Canada

Posted July 24, 2020 - 08:26 PM

Looks like I need a smaller pipe wrench. Without risking sending that spring flying, I can’t quite reach the wrench in there. Do the tool purchases ever stop? And here I was all excited to try tonight.
attachicon.gifE0865E3A-5F7A-4D46-9B90-A29AD743F3D6.jpeg

That is not where I would recommend putting the pipe wrench.  I am talking about the rear flange where the coupler bolts to the driveshaft as per these pictures.  The pipe wrench can be put in this location either with the driveshaft installed or off the tractor.  You could also clamp a large pair of vise grips onto the flange but a pipe wrench should give you more leverage.

Attached Thumbnails

  • 2 Coupling End.jpg
  • 3 Coupling End.JPG

Edited by 29 Chev, July 24, 2020 - 08:27 PM.

  • Bolens 1000, Bruce Dorsi and WrenchinOnIt have said thanks

#40 fildred13 OFFLINE  

fildred13
  • Member
  • Member No: 99710
  • 8 Thanks
  • 21 posts
  • Location: Cape Cod, Massachusetts

Posted July 25, 2020 - 10:11 AM

Well I gave that technique a shot, and several others. I tried gripping the flange itself in a vise and spinning the shaft. I tried the pipe wrench on the rear flange as you suggested, but neither an adjustable nor a strap wrench wrapped around the flange and pulley did anything either.

I suspect it is a little bit about leverage, but really it seems more about grip in my case.

Any time I try to grip the “flats” of the flange that are meant to be turned with the adjustable, I just cam off. The corners of the flats seem quite worn down - I suspect I’m not the first who has struggled trying to get this off. Some ape tightened his thing with all his might, and/or used locking compound, and/or corrosion got to it (though I sort of doubt that last one - this assembly is in remarkably good shape).

I hate to be one to give up, but without a backup drive shaft to fall back to if I break this one, I don’t think I can risk trying to pry this off or make modifications to allow for better grip. I really think it’s on there so good that I may well break something trying to get it off. So I guess this is one piece for now, at least until I have a second drive shaft and can risk messing with this one further.

#41 Bolens 1000 OFFLINE  

Bolens 1000

    DR. Bolens

  • Staff Admin
  • Staff
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 7
  • 17175 Thanks
  • 18749 posts
  • Location: Western NY

Posted July 25, 2020 - 10:23 AM

What 29chev has mentioned is the best option for these , I'll sometimes even remove the flange when still on the tractor as you can use the pipe wrench in the back and rest it against the frame tube , you have to keep in mine the front flange is also under tension from the spring so turning this is going to be harder than just loosening a standard nut , for the clutch to work proper you have to tighten that thing all the way down then back off several turns.

use a pipe at the end of the wrench if you need more leverage


  • WrenchinOnIt said thank you

#42 fildred13 OFFLINE  

fildred13
  • Member
  • Member No: 99710
  • 8 Thanks
  • 21 posts
  • Location: Cape Cod, Massachusetts

Posted July 25, 2020 - 10:50 AM

I put a huge cheater bar on this thing, but like I said the problem is grip. Even when I’m just using my arm strength with no cheater bar, The wrench is still just camming right off. The only idea I have left is to get a vise chain grip and try to get around the whole outside of the flange with that, and hopefully that’ll give me the grip I need. Leverage ain’t the problem, it’s grip.

And I have to somehow grip ONLY the flange, and somehow avoid also gripping the pulley. I assume the pulley is pressed on or otherwise a tight fit with the shaft, so if I try to turn that at the same time it’ll just add more torque I need to generate, which is counter productive. If I’m wrong and I can spin the pulley and front flange at the same time, that’s be good to know because it’ll make gripping the circumference of the flange much easier.

#43 29 Chev OFFLINE  

29 Chev

    A Little Off Plumb

  • Senior Member
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 63590
  • 19111 Thanks
  • 6455 posts
  • Location: Ontario Canada

Posted July 25, 2020 - 11:10 AM

Sorry to hear this is proving to be a challenge.  If the flats are rounded that can be a challenge - what you could do is use a flat file and gently dress the flats so they are parallel and square in relation to each other again.  Attached are a couple of pictures that show what the flats should look like on an unmolested hub.  You could also make up a homemade tool if you had some 3/8" or 1/2" flat bar and a welder to create a closed in square hole tool that would fit the flats snuggly and add a piece of flat or round stock to create a handle.  You could also drill two 1/4" diameter holes in the front face of the hub 1/4" deep and then make a spanner wrench with two dowels (roll pins or round stock) that would mate to the two holes in the hub.  If you drill the holes make sure they are symmetrically located to maintain balance in the hub and only go 1/4" deep so you do not contact the friction material.  You could also use a pair of chain vise grips around the outer edge of the front hub to give you a good drip to loosen the front hub. 

 

Just suggestions to consider as it sounds like it is just a matter of the wrench you are using slipping before you can get enough leverage to start the hub turning. Have put together a couple of crude drawings to give you an idea of what I am trying to describe.

 

Attached Thumbnails

  • Homemade Tools 1.jpg

  • Bolens 1000 and WrenchinOnIt have said thanks

#44 29 Chev OFFLINE  

29 Chev

    A Little Off Plumb

  • Senior Member
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 63590
  • 19111 Thanks
  • 6455 posts
  • Location: Ontario Canada

Posted July 25, 2020 - 11:18 AM

I put a huge cheater bar on this thing, but like I said the problem is grip. Even when I’m just using my arm strength with no cheater bar, The wrench is still just camming right off. The only idea I have left is to get a vise chain grip and try to get around the whole outside of the flange with that, and hopefully that’ll give me the grip I need. Leverage ain’t the problem, it’s grip.

And I have to somehow grip ONLY the flange, and somehow avoid also gripping the pulley. I assume the pulley is pressed on or otherwise a tight fit with the shaft, so if I try to turn that at the same time it’ll just add more torque I need to generate, which is counter productive. If I’m wrong and I can spin the pulley and front flange at the same time, that’s be good to know because it’ll make gripping the circumference of the flange much easier.

The double groove pulley between the front and rear clutch flanges has two roller bearing inside it so that it can rotate on the shaft when the spring is pulled back by the clutch pedal being pressed down and the clutch is in the released position.  Attached are pictures of the pulley and what you will find once the front hub and pulley are removed.

Attached Thumbnails

  • 12 Second Needle Bearing Pressed Into Pulley.jpg
  • 3 Spring Rear Clutch Hub Short Spring And Washer On Driveshaft.jpg

  • Bolens 1000 and WrenchinOnIt have said thanks

#45 fildred13 OFFLINE  

fildred13
  • Member
  • Member No: 99710
  • 8 Thanks
  • 21 posts
  • Location: Cape Cod, Massachusetts

Posted July 25, 2020 - 12:45 PM

Drilling a pair of holes in the face to make holes for a spanner wrench was precisely the kind of modification that, while in theory relatively safe, is not worth the risk just yet until I have a backup drive shaft or at least flange in case things go awry. After all, there is nothing apparently wrong with this assembly save the brake plate facing, which I can easily replace without taking the rest of the assembly apart.

That said, I would like to get it apart if only to inspect and paint easier. I appreciate the pictures of the inside. The square-hole wrench is a good idea. It’s certainly worth a shot, only costs me a little time. Might just be the excuse to finally getting around to wiring the shop in the new place for the big stuff.

And when the chain vise grips get here I can give those a go. Worst case I’ll throw my hands up in defeat for the moment and come back to this once I have a parts tractor on hand in case things go south!




Top