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Making a bucket loader ...


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#1 New.Canadian.DB.Owner OFFLINE  

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Posted May 11, 2019 - 08:41 AM

I have an Allis HB112.  Wife would like a bucket loader.  In the day, Allis sold a loader for the HB112 called an L12 loader.  It is like a Johnson loader.  I can't find one locally, so I need to build one.  My question is about the main arms:  What are they normally made of, 2 x 4 1/8" wall box, 1 x 3 box, etc?

 

tractor with loader 2.jpg

tractor with loader 3.jpg

tractor with loader.jpg  


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#2 secondtry ONLINE  

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Posted May 11, 2019 - 11:37 AM

The arms on mine are 1 1/2 X 2 1/2 x1/8. The columns are much larger.   Don


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#3 dodge trucker OFFLINE  

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Posted May 11, 2019 - 02:53 PM

Another brand of machine but my son has been using one of my machines and asked the same thing about getting a bucket for one of them, I've been looking too.
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#4 New.Canadian.DB.Owner OFFLINE  

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Posted May 13, 2019 - 01:40 PM

The arms on mine are 1 1/2 X 2 1/2 x1/8. The columns are much larger.   Don

 

Thank you for the help. Can I bother you for a measurement between the columns? The lower frame flares out around the foot boards and the distance between the columns sets the amount of flare. 

 

IMG_2978.jpg

IMG_2954.jpg

foot board flare.png



#5 secondtry ONLINE  

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Posted May 13, 2019 - 08:27 PM

Unfortunately the machine I have is not the same as yours. The measurements for mine could be misleading. You need to determine locations for the supporting frameworks for your loader and from that calculate clearances that will not interfere. Like building any structure you start with the foundation. The pictures you posted don't show exactly hoe the sub frame is attached to the tractor. My loader doesn't have a full sub frame it is on a sears 18/6 and the column is mounted to the center of the tractor frame and depends a great deal on the tractor frame for support.   Don   


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#6 mmmmmdonuts OFFLINE  

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Posted May 16, 2019 - 09:21 AM

I did a loader build last year. I highly recommend buying the PF Engineering plans. Made it much, much easier to build. The geometry is already engineered and figured out and gives you a great place to start. 

 

My build is shown here. https://gardentracto...x-loader-build/

 

Reach out to me if you have any questions and I will be glad to help. 


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#7 fortyacre OFFLINE  

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Posted May 29, 2019 - 05:11 AM

I did a loader build last year. I highly recommend buying the PF Engineering plans. Made it much, much easier to build. The geometry is already engineered and figured out and gives you a great place to start. 

 

My build is shown here. https://gardentracto...x-loader-build/

 

Reach out to me if you have any questions and I will be glad to help. 

 

Are these plans specific to your tractor or can they be adapted to any tractor?



#8 mmmmmdonuts OFFLINE  

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Posted May 30, 2019 - 06:43 PM

The pf engineering plans can be adapted to any tractor. The subframe and pump mount will most likely have to be customized but the rest could be the same. The plans were based on a Cub cadet and I made it to fit my GTX.
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#9 New.Canadian.DB.Owner OFFLINE  

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Posted July 07, 2019 - 05:43 PM

So, here is where I am so far.  

 

DSCF9228.JPG

 

The answer to my question about the distance between the columns seems pretty obvious in retrospect.  It depends on how wide the tractor is.  For me, that was determined by the lights. The lift arms need to be wider that that, so I went 25 3/4" between the lift arms.

 

DSCF9259.JPG  DSCF9258.JPG

 

I started by replacing the support bracket under the engine with one that was wide enough the support the substructure but would still allow the wheels to turn.  I had to drill two new holes for the engine bolts.  Of course they are not in line with the original two, and not equal distance from the center.  The heads of the 2 original bolts also are under the engine and spin freely.  I ended up cutting a slot in the bottom of the bolt & holding them with a screw driver while turning the nut.  You also have to jack up the front end & remove the axle pivot bolt so the bracket will drop down.  The left side engine bolt had a large square head on it, so it didn't rotate.  The right side engine bolt didn't, so i built one to replace the original bolt.  It is ugly, but it doesn't rotate.

 

DSCF9235.JPG DSCF9251.JPG DSCF9232.JPG  DSCF9256.JPG

 

The substructure is 2 x 2 (1/4" wall) angles iron.  It is supported at the rear by a 1 1/2" round bar that fits through pre-drilled holes in the frame.  On the right side, it will fit between the wheel and the break rod, but just.   There is some interference with the drive belt when the brake is applied, but none that wasn't already being created by the brake pivot.   

 

DSCF9267.JPG DSCF9225.JPG DSCF9242.JPG

 

On the left, it will just clear the wheel.  I might build some spacers to give the tires more room, or I might cut off some of the angle iron where it runs passed the wheels.  Not sure yet. 

 

DSCF9266.JPG  DSCF9265.JPG  

 

The substructure isn't wide enough on its own to support the uprights and clear the light so I added some bump outs using 2 x 2 (1/8 wall) angle iron.  That wouldn't hold the load so I added a crossbar under the substructure to carry the weight.  

 

DSCF9237.JPG  DSCF9236.JPG  

 

I built the uprights out of 2 x 4 box (1/8" wall).  I welded the uprights to a piece a 1/4" plate so I could use bolts to disassemble unit for storage.  The left side is taller so I have a place to mount the control levers.  The HB112 has a hydro drive, and the lever is on the right.  I put the bucket controls on the left so I can move & lift at the same time.  Can't move, lift, and turn at the same time, but you can't have everything.

 

DSCF9260.JPG  DSCF9257.JPG

 

The lift arms are built out of 1 1/2 x 3 (1/8" wall) box.  I cut an 8' length in half to get two arms.  The location of the bend depended on the front wheels, and the length of the hydraulic lift cylinder.  If the long section is to short, the cylinder would be shorter and that restricts the lift height.    The angle depends on the height of the bucket attachment point and the height of the front wheels.  If the angle isn't right you can't get low enough on the bucket to get a good tilt action without hitting the tires.  I set mine by using a 4 x 4.

 

DSCF9271.JPG  DSCF9272.JPG

 

Just some things to think about if you are heading down this road.  I still have a way to go. I still need to finish the welding, add some braces, build the counterweight box for the back, and figure out the hydraulics.  

 

 

 

 

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#10 secondtry ONLINE  

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Posted July 07, 2019 - 06:38 PM

So, here is where I am so far.  

 

attachicon.gifDSCF9228.JPG

 

The answer to my question about the distance between the columns seems pretty obvious in retrospect.  It depends on how wide the tractor is.  For me, that was determined by the lights. The lift arms need to be wider that that, so I went 25 3/4" between the lift arms.

 

attachicon.gifDSCF9259.JPG attachicon.gifDSCF9258.JPG

 

I started by replacing the support bracket under the engine with one that was wide enough the support the substructure but would still allow the wheels to turn.  I had to drill two new holes for the engine bolts.  Of course they are not in line with the original two, and not equal distance from the center.  The heads of the 2 original bolts also are under the engine and spin freely.  I ended up cutting a slot in the bottom of the bolt & holding them with a screw driver while turning the nut.  You also have to jack up the front end & remove the axle pivot bolt so the bracket will drop down.  The left side engine bolt had a large square head on it, so it didn't rotate.  The right side engine bolt didn't, so i built one to replace the original bolt.  It is ugly, but it doesn't rotate.

 

attachicon.gifDSCF9235.JPG attachicon.gifDSCF9251.JPG attachicon.gifDSCF9232.JPG attachicon.gifDSCF9256.JPG

 

The substructure is 2 x 2 (1/4" wall) angles iron.  It is supported at the rear by a 1 1/2" round bar that fits through pre-drilled holes in the frame.  On the right side, it will fit between the wheel and the break rod, but just.   There is some interference with the drive belt when the brake is applied, but none that wasn't already being created by the brake pivot.   

 

attachicon.gifDSCF9267.JPG attachicon.gifDSCF9225.JPG attachicon.gifDSCF9242.JPG

 

On the left, it will just clear the wheel.  I might build some spacers to give the tires more room, or I might cut off some of the angle iron where it runs passed the wheels.  Not sure yet. 

 

attachicon.gifDSCF9266.JPG attachicon.gifDSCF9265.JPG

 

The substructure isn't wide enough on its own to support the uprights and clear the light so I added some bump outs using 2 x 2 (1/8 wall) angle iron.  That wouldn't hold the load so I added a crossbar under the substructure to carry the weight.  

 

attachicon.gifDSCF9237.JPG attachicon.gifDSCF9236.JPG

 

I built the uprights out of 2 x 4 box (1/8" wall).  I welded the uprights to a piece a 1/4" plate so I could use bolts to disassemble unit for storage.  The left side is taller so I have a place to mount the control levers.  The HB112 has a hydro drive, and the lever is on the right.  I put the bucket controls on the left so I can move & lift at the same time.  Can't move, lift, and turn at the same time, but you can't have everything.

 

attachicon.gifDSCF9260.JPG attachicon.gifDSCF9257.JPG

 

The lift arms are built out of 1 1/2 x 3 (1/8" wall) box.  I cut an 8' length in half to get two arms.  The location of the bend depended on the front wheels, and the length of the hydraulic lift cylinder.  If the long section is to short, the cylinder would be shorter and that restricts the lift height.    The angle depends on the height of the bucket attachment point and the height of the front wheels.  If the angle isn't right you can't get low enough on the bucket to get a good tilt action without hitting the tires.  I set mine by using a 4 x 4.

 

attachicon.gifDSCF9271.JPG attachicon.gifDSCF9272.JPG

 

Just some things to think about if you are heading down this road.  I still have a way to go. I still need to finish the welding, add some braces, build the counterweight box for the back, and figure out the hydraulics.  

The exact placement of the anchor points of the cylinder has as much effect on the lift height as the length of the upper arm. Moving the anchor point up and down the the column moves the other end of the cylinder in and out on the upper arm changing the geometry drastically. The closer the upper point is the further that arm will move but with less force. It is all about levers.   Don


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#11 mmmmmdonuts OFFLINE  

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Posted July 10, 2019 - 11:36 AM

Looks great so far. You're making quick progress. 

 

What size are your front wheel spindles? Are they 3/4" or 1". If they are 3/4 I suggest modifying them to 1" spindles to handle the weight. Otherwise you may have some problems with loading it.


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#12 New.Canadian.DB.Owner OFFLINE  

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Posted July 10, 2019 - 02:45 PM

Hmmmm... Had not thought of that.  I figured that since they made a loader to fit on the tractor, the tractor would be made to carry the weight.


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#13 New.Canadian.DB.Owner OFFLINE  

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Posted July 10, 2019 - 07:21 PM

I mocked up the lift cylinder support brackets today.  Any tips for improving them?

 

DSCF9273.JPG  DSCF9274.JPG

 

DSCF9275.JPG DSCF9277.JPG

 

DSCF9280.JPG


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#14 mmmmmdonuts OFFLINE  

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Posted July 11, 2019 - 01:15 PM

It was just a thought on the spindles. PF engineering's website has some ideas on how to re-enforce or upgrade the spindles if they are smaller. I generally try and overkill what I build and tend to be as safe as possible. 

 

I do have some thoughts on the cylinder placement. I would place the cylinders further up the tower posts. Probably closer to half way up. This will give you a smaller more compact cylinder. I would also slide the where the bucket mounts not at the joint and further down the arm for the bucket. Make it so it is nearly parallel with the ground. 

 

I welded 1" bar stock and drilled out holes for the pins for the cylinders and had it mounted inside. My concern is the thin piece of steel you have with a gusset will eventually oval and round out with the forces of the loader. You could use DOM steel where the gussets are to mount the cylinder to give the loader more steel to rotate in. This also allows you to put a grease fitting where the cylinders meet. 

 

Your arms are pretty beefy but I would try and make a more triangular gusset that way you can just cut a small plate in half to make the gusset and you got both sides to match.

 

The other thing to keep in mind is the bottom of the bucket will have your arms be higher than just right on the ground. It will be a few inches higher in normal operation depending on how you mount the bucket to the frame. 


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#15 mmmmmdonuts OFFLINE  

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Posted July 11, 2019 - 01:57 PM

I was going to edit my previous post but I just realized that you're modelling your loader more like the old johnson loader's vs. the kwik way/ark type loader. When I built mine it was more of the kwik way/ ark vs the johnsons. I think the difference will be with the hydraulic cylinders. The johnson used typically 2x18 for the arms and 2x14 or 2x12 for the bucket, where the ark/kwik way were more uniform at 2x16's. 






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