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Deere 316k front pto siezed


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#1 Tennblue59 OFFLINE  

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Posted November 16, 2011 - 12:07 AM

Was using the 316k and shut it off normally. Went to start it a few days later and it acts like the engine is siezed. Won't turn over, starter kicks in but engine doesnt move.

After some panicked moments, trace it down to the front pto frozen solid. The rotor is frozen to the field coil/back plate. With the pto assembly removed, the engine runs fine... Note, it's not stuck because of being energized (different part), it is frozen with or without power - even out of the tractor!

So am trying to get the pto apart to see what is wrong with it. I can't get the rotor to come loose from the back plate/field coil. The driven plate (where the pulley mounts to) came off fine and the bearing on that assembly is ok.

Anybody have a similar problem or have any ideas how to get them apart?

Got them soaking overnight and will go at it tomorrow. Worst thing, I tear them up and have to spend the $200 anyway (or buy used off, well you know where.....).

Deere parts doesn't show an inner bearing - just replace the field coil ($109) and/or the rotor ($109) as needed.

#2 Bipitybopityboo OFFLINE  

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Posted November 16, 2011 - 12:22 AM

Sounds like maybe it developed a short and overheated, causing the resins to melt. This then cooled and glued the whole thing together. Hopefully it's something mechanical that has it locked up but it may be a good idea to check continuity to see if there is a short to ground or low resistance in the windings before you spend a lot of time trying to get it apart.

#3 Tennblue59 OFFLINE  

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Posted November 16, 2011 - 08:29 PM

Update!!!
Got the two parts, well, apart....

The rotor has a shoulder that rides about 3/4 inch inside the field coil housing. This had friction welded to the field housing case. The resin of the coil looked fine - no distortion or heat marks evident.

Will try to get some pictures tomorrow. Also need to test the coil and see if it still functions - it was working ok before being parked...

It shut down fine - didn't quit - I turned it off... Evidently didn't fuse until after it shut off?!?!?!

Wondering if some trash or something got in the space and forced the rotating parts together, starting the destructive cycle? Or could it have been caused by being out of adjustment somehow? So now I know WHAT happened, just still not the WHY...

If everything works ok, will chuck it in the lathe and turn the burrs off and burnish the adjacent surfaces.
  • MH81 said thank you

#4 JDBrian OFFLINE  

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Posted November 17, 2011 - 07:45 PM

That is odd for it to seize like that. After you reassemble it, set the gap and it should be fine. When I got my 314 the clutch would not engage but the pulley would turn with the engine. When you shut the engine off you could here it spinning down. When I took a look at it the gap was set so wide that it didn't have a hope of working. The odd part is that it had a brand new coil. The switch was also bad. Eventually I got all these problems sorted out. In order to adjust the gap I had to add a shim to the shaft- maybe .030 - not much. That may be why the PO did not have it adjusted properly. Good luck getting yours working again.

#5 Tennblue59 OFFLINE  

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Posted November 18, 2011 - 11:16 AM

Well, tested the coil - impedance of 3.6 olms, so that was ok. Also plenty of magnetism when engaged.

Springs have a little bent down toward the armature late, but that shouldn't make it sieze?

As promised, here are a few pictures...
IMG00152-20111117-1217.jpg
IMG00153-20111117-1218.jpg

Attached Thumbnails

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#6 MH81 ONLINE  

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Posted November 18, 2011 - 06:49 PM

Thanks for the follow-up, weird that it seized that way.

#7 JDBrian OFFLINE  

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Posted November 18, 2011 - 07:40 PM

That clutch is slightly different than the one on my 314. You should check the parts diagram on JDParts.com and make sure that there isn't a spacer or something else missing.

#8 olcowhand ONLINE  

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Posted November 18, 2011 - 07:53 PM

Something is out of line there for that plate's extension to rub the inner housing of the electromagnet. The mounting plate for the electromagnet has outward punched places to fit into spots of the engine to center it. Be sure they haven't been mashed down. Also, check your crank to make sure the main end cap bearing isn't worn loose allowing your crank to have up/down play. Something is for sure out of whack to have caused this as I have NEVER seen this before. Either the mounting plate is off center, or the crank is loose.

#9 Tennblue59 OFFLINE  

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Posted November 19, 2011 - 03:10 PM

Thanks Olcowhand. This didn't make sense to me either! Electromechanical clutches are something new for me to work on- used them before, but never had to work on them..

Runout on the crank was within specs, so I don't think that is the issue. Didn't consider that the mount may have been off a little - will check it when I mount it back up.

Did find something strange though. When I put it in the lathe, the rotor was out of round - can clearly see where the "high" lobe was, and that was where it was hitting as it spun. I set it up a couple times and trued it on the bore (as opposed to the shoulder) and the results were consistant. Not way out, but enough to rub - that would also explain why it didn't sieze while running, only hitting about 15 degrees per rotation so the motor could "power through it."

So maybe everything was just lining up "wrong" -tight field core tolerance, had the mount off a little, the rotor out or round, and it hit on the high spot as it stopped and siezed. Only thing I can think of....

So, in retrospect, I learned some new stuff, I THINK I know what and why happened, and I didn't have to spend any money!!!




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