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Looking for advice or information on building hydraulic lift systems


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#1 Michiganmobileman OFFLINE  

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Posted November 05, 2011 - 07:31 AM

I will be adding hydraulics to my A-G this winter. I have purchased a 3 way valve, have two cylinders on hand and have a pump that is mounted to a 12V motor(not sure if I should use electric motor though), I believe from a snowplow.
Wanting to get some additional info on line sizes, lift capabilities, operating pressures, blah, blah,blah.
In other words I admit I have little experience with hydraulics, other than using the existing controls on my tractors. I have room up front for the pump, a reservoir tank and could add a second battery too.
Any body have any good words of wisdom or warning to give me?
Any good websites or links to information on this subject?
Hope to get at this shortly after the ground freezes, the Allis-Grader gets put to bed after that.
:worshippy2:Thanks in advance:smile1:

Edited by Michiganmobileman, November 05, 2011 - 07:32 AM.
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#2 Lovintractorin OFFLINE  

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Posted November 05, 2011 - 09:27 AM

What about using a auto PS pump with a belt off the engine instead of using a 12 volt pump. I remember reading a thread on a guy who added hydraulics too a Bolens tubeframe with a PS pump. I can't find the thread though. I think it was on MTF.
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#3 Alc ONLINE  

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Posted November 05, 2011 - 12:22 PM

Monacrh made a lot of snow plow pump/motor unit .Couldn't find the Monacrh web site but maybe this will help you figuring what pump/motor you have to work with . Al

http://www.baumhydra...catalog/k22.pdf
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#4 Toolpartzman OFFLINE  

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Posted November 06, 2011 - 04:10 AM

A bit of industrial Hyd. experience here that would apply. It should be a cake walk for you. The main thing is to start with the math and determine exactly what you want to move--in pounds, tons etc. Its pretty straight forward. System pressure x piston area = pushing force, and pump flow rate determines how fast you can make it happen.

Most Monarch pumps are pump/valve combos used for single acting cylinders. Power/flow to raise, weight/gravity to lower the load/return oil to tank. You've got that covered with your 3-way valve. It needs to be a 3-position valve (Flow/hold/return). (Power extend and power retract calls for a 4-way)Measure the cylinders for volume-(231 cubic inches = 1 gallon). That plus a little for hose. about 15% more for low use should be OK.

The power steering units are a great idea, however their "control valve" (the steering wheel) is essentially a rotary 4- way with fluid being pumped to do work and fluid returning (an equal amount) to tank simultaneously. This maintains reservoir levels so that the pump doesn't cavitate (draw air). That growing sound we hear when fluid levels are low. To avoid TMI I'll stop with that, but for any help, just holler. --LeeB
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#5 MH81 ONLINE  

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Posted November 06, 2011 - 04:23 AM

Thanks Lee, often times when someone talks Hydraulics, I come away with the "Big Dummy" feeling. If I need to work on one, I go to the store to buy a diving rod. (they're always out of them)

Now that I understood.

#6 Toolpartzman OFFLINE  

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Posted November 06, 2011 - 04:35 AM

Having dealt with 2500 ton stamping presses and 600 ton cotton presses, I should have retained something. But its fading fast. Now where the H%*& is my coffee cup.?:wallbanging:

#7 Michiganmobileman OFFLINE  

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Posted November 06, 2011 - 07:37 AM

What about using a auto PS pump with a belt off the engine instead of using a 12 volt pump. I remember reading a thread on a guy who added hydraulics too a Bolens tubeframe with a PS pump. I can't find the thread though. I think it was on MTF.

That is an option I am considering if the 12v pump I have cant be used.

#8 Michiganmobileman OFFLINE  

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Posted November 06, 2011 - 07:40 AM

Monacrh made a lot of snow plow pump/motor unit .Couldn't find the Monacrh web site but maybe this will help you figuring what pump/motor you have to work with . Al

http://www.baumhydra...catalog/k22.pdf


Thank you!! File link is bad but went to their website, which is full of info, lots of help.
THANKS AGAIN

#9 Michiganmobileman OFFLINE  

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Posted November 06, 2011 - 07:58 AM

I learned how to use the "Multi-Qoute":bounce:Although it wont help my post count as much:smilewink:

A bit of industrial Hyd. experience here that would apply. It should be a cake walk for you. The main thing is to start with the math and determine exactly what you want to move--in pounds, tons etc. Its pretty straight forward. System pressure x piston area = pushing force, and pump flow rate determines how fast you can make it happen.

Most Monarch pumps are pump/valve combos used for single acting cylinders. Power/flow to raise, weight/gravity to lower the load/return oil to tank. You've got that covered with your 3-way valve. It needs to be a 3-position valve (Flow/hold/return). (Power extend and power retract calls for a 4-way)Measure the cylinders for volume-(231 cubic inches = 1 gallon). That plus a little for hose. about 15% more for low use should be OK.

The power steering units are a great idea, however their "control valve" (the steering wheel) is essentially a rotary 4- way with fluid being pumped to do work and fluid returning (an equal amount) to tank simultaneously. This maintains reservoir levels so that the pump doesn't cavitate (draw air). That growing sound we hear when fluid levels are low. To avoid TMI I'll stop with that, but for any help, just holler. --LeeB


Thanks Lee, often times when someone talks Hydraulics, I come away with the "Big Dummy" feeling. If I need to work on one, I go to the store to buy a diving rod. (they're always out of them)

Now that I understood.


Having dealt with 2500 ton stamping presses and 600 ton cotton presses, I should have retained something. But its fading fast. Now where the H%*& is my coffee cup.?:wallbanging:


Super bit of practical information in layman's terms! And yes easy to understand. Thanks once again!! And I think we all have that fading fast feeling:confuse:
Here is the pump as found
Posted Image

And the valve I won last week
Posted Image.

Thanks again to all.

#10 Alc ONLINE  

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Posted November 06, 2011 - 10:02 AM

Never saw a set-up like that . Is that round part on top the reservior ?

#11 Michiganmobileman OFFLINE  

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Posted November 06, 2011 - 10:14 AM

Never saw a set-up like that . Is that round part on top the reservior ?


Yes it is(was). This was in the attic of the garage at my Father in laws, found after he passed in 07 and us Brother in laws did a clean out at M-I-L's request. BIL Dave wanted to throw it in the scrap pile, no way Jose' I'm taking that:smilewink:, hooked battery to it when I got home and sprayed a good amount of hyd oil on the wall of the shed, OOPS. Like I said above I have considered just using the pump and installing it off the front PTO side of the motor.

#12 Toolpartzman OFFLINE  

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Posted November 06, 2011 - 04:55 PM

You might have some major fun with that. It looks like ,from the photo that 3 lines are connected to a 3-way valve. The "off angle" from the motor shaft to the pump shaft tells me its likely a piston pump-similar to those in hydro stats except that the displacement angle is fixed, rather than variable with a hydro stat. The reservoir seems small compared to the pump. Looks like it cold empty the tank in about 5 rev's.:bigrofl: Those piston pumps can move fluid against some pretty high pressure-north of say of 2500psi.

Now, I'm NOT suggesting anything, however,if it were mine, I'd put on some old clothes, connect the tank to the suction side of the pump, then plumb a high pressure gauge* DIRECTLY into the discharge port, using NO hose, then rig up some sort of momentary switch in order to just bump the motor, perhaps less than 1 full RPM. Then I stand far enough away that I could see the gauge when it fires and that would tell me whether the pump was good or not and how much pressure I had to play with.

I've done it many times. Its called deadheading the pump. I've had a few nasty baths and so that's why I don't recommend this to anyone.:blush2:

*5000psi
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#13 Michiganmobileman OFFLINE  

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Posted November 06, 2011 - 05:11 PM

I went back to an old post of mine on another site and pulled up this info:
There is a tag under two layers of paint and it does say Vickers with a model number and ser number, 1000 PSI, 12V, 3450 rpm and some other info
with reservoir attached
Its pushed under the bench in the shed and I dont remember a lot of details on the "plumbing" of it, may dig it out tomorrow night.
Heres one more pic without the tank on it
Posted Image

Edited by Michiganmobileman, November 06, 2011 - 05:20 PM.
Add pciture link


#14 Toolpartzman OFFLINE  

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Posted November 06, 2011 - 05:46 PM

Interesting. I sold Vickers Hyd.s for many years and I may have a master manual around somewhere. I'm surprised at the low pressure unless it has an internal relief
but still has potential. Another thought: its possible to run the pump only when you need it, say a 10-15% duty cycle. That way you can use a minimal sized tank if heat is not an issue. Unless that's a special pump, the oil should be kept to around 135 degrees F or less.

#15 Toolpartzman OFFLINE  

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Posted November 06, 2011 - 05:49 PM

The vertical piece in the plumbing, just to the right of the nameplate looks to be an in-line ck valve.:confuse:




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