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Reversing a starter/generator


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#1 GTTinkerer OFFLINE  

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Posted November 04, 2011 - 06:29 AM

I need to come up with an electric chute rotator for my son-in-laws 50" Jacobsen snowblower.

I have looked at using a starter/generator since I have several laying on the shelf in the shop and with the mounting tabs it would be easy to build a mount for it. Problem is the motor needs to be reversible for it to work. I have hooked them up every way I can think of to get the motor to spin both CW and CCW without any luck.

I added photos of the area where the motor needs to be mounted and of the "socket" the motor needs to mate with.

Thanks,
Bill

Attached Thumbnails

  • DSCN1300.JPG
  • Jac motor 1.JPG


#2 MH81 ONLINE  

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Posted November 04, 2011 - 06:41 AM

You'll need to switch both wires.
Step one, set it on the bench and hook it up negative ground. Note the rotation.
Step two, hook up positive ground, rotation should be backwards.

At least I hope thats what happens :D
In order to turn it both ways, you'll need to isolate the mounting and switch both "ground" and "hot".

#3 Gtractor ONLINE  

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Posted November 04, 2011 - 07:29 AM

It would be easiest to use a golf cart starter/generator since they turn both directions.
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#4 ducky OFFLINE  

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Posted November 04, 2011 - 07:37 AM

To reverse a DC motor you will need to reverse the polarity of either the field or the armature circuit. Not both. Also check that the armature and the field both handle high currents. I have to go look at a schematic to answer that one.
I believe these motor/gens have a bit of brush lead built into them so they generate more torque in the desired rotation which may cause a torque and/or speed issue in the other direction. This brush lead may also control the current output. I can remember doing that on old tractor that ran a cutout instead of a regulator. We could change to charge rate that way to prevent over or undercharging the battery.
I think speed may be another issue without some gear reduction.
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#5 olcowhand OFFLINE  

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Posted November 04, 2011 - 07:38 AM

I was told by a starter rebuilder that to reverse rotation on the Delco starter/gens, that the fields had to be swapped out for the correct ones.

#6 Alc ONLINE  

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Posted November 04, 2011 - 07:44 AM

Would a power window motor have enough torque to make the chute work ?

#7 olcowhand OFFLINE  

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Posted November 04, 2011 - 07:46 AM

Would a power window motor have enough torque to make the chute work ?


I have seen the older units adapted for just such a thing! Newer ones aren't very strong, but the 70's units were pretty torquey.

#8 ducky OFFLINE  

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Posted November 04, 2011 - 07:48 AM

I just dusted off my Delco schematic and if you can isolate the field circiut and reverse the polarity it will turn backwards. See attachedsg.jpg
Also you will have to add a resitor to the field circiut ot limit current.
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#9 olcowhand OFFLINE  

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Posted November 04, 2011 - 07:51 AM

Even if you can easily reverse the direction, it would have to have a special switch to be able to swap rotations back & forth. Plus, you would have to have some sort of gear reduction to slow the input to the chute .

#10 GTTinkerer OFFLINE  

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Posted November 04, 2011 - 10:38 AM

Thanks for all the replies.

I will probably end up using a cheap eBay or Northern Tools 12 volt winch. I read somewhere where someone used a winch to pull it in one direction and a heavy spring to pull it back the other way when the winch was reversed. Be much easier to do but the winch would have to be protected from all the salt they dump on the roads up here.

Been trying to get the machine brought over all summer to get it done before the snow flies but the SIL is quite busy working three jobs keeping his wife happy.

Thanks again.

#11 olcowhand OFFLINE  

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Posted November 04, 2011 - 11:12 AM

The easiest way would be to use an electric actuator.

QDV-EA.jpg
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#12 GTTinkerer OFFLINE  

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Posted November 04, 2011 - 12:36 PM

Daniel,
I looked at the linear actuator deal but with the clearance between the back of the chute and the cab I don't see how it would work since I would need to fabricate an extension off the back of the chute about 6" to get the needed 180* rotation. Also to get that much rotation I would need an actuator with about 12 to 15" of travel.

With the winch I would have a cable off the winch and could use another cable off the spring which would allow the limited space to work better.

Thanks,
Bill

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  • 2011-11-04 Chute clearance.jpg


#13 ducky OFFLINE  

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Posted November 04, 2011 - 12:43 PM

Check these motors at Surplus center.
Surplus Center

#14 olcowhand OFFLINE  

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Posted November 04, 2011 - 12:43 PM

True enough Bill. Yes, the winch is likely your best venue then.

#15 ducky OFFLINE  

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Posted November 04, 2011 - 12:51 PM

This one will work. Geared fust a bit slow but you could change that easy enough.
Surplus Center - 6 RPM 12 VDC GEARMOTOR

SPECIFICATIONS
Speed 6 RPM @ 850 in-lbs, 25 Amps

10 RPM @ 400 in-lbs, 13 Amps
12 RPM (no load)
Voltage 12 DC
Torque 850 in-lbs
Holding Torque 500 in-lbs.
Rotation Reversible
Duty Intermittent
Enclosure TENV
Mount Four bolt face mount on 3.38" x 3.38"centers
Dual Shafts 3/4" diam. x 1-1/4" with 1/4" crosshole (no keyway)
Size 9-1/4" x 3-7/8" x 6-1/4"
Shpg. 12 lbs.
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