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M12? Under A tree


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#46 Toolpartzman OFFLINE  

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Posted November 20, 2011 - 12:14 PM

No , I meant "Pull" the engine off the frame. I was so careful with the hydro, because I couldn't get the by-pass valve open at first, that I lifted the rear wheels clear and manhandled it with a long bar to move it. You're absolutely correct. Pushing a hydro without the by-pass causes the hyd motor to become a pump and backflows the drive pump and they don't like it. I should have been more clear. Guess I was thinking "car", in the old days when we "pulled" chevy engines out and put in Fords.---Hee Hee--LeeB

#47 olcowhand OFFLINE  

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Posted November 20, 2011 - 02:33 PM

I gotchya! In fact, I should have realized what you meant, as I "pull" engines too! LOL

#48 Texas Deere and Horse ONLINE  

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Posted November 20, 2011 - 02:46 PM

Tool, You got a great little M/F there and with some work, you'll have a nice gt when your done..
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#49 IHCubGuy OFFLINE  

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Posted November 20, 2011 - 04:40 PM

What someone put into your MF12 is a 10HP K241 Kohler. I am actually in the middle of doing a repower of my MF 12 Hydro. I have the old HH120 Tecumseh engine pulled out and the new transplant in place. I actually fit into mine a K301 Kohler similar to what someone else put in yours. They are physically the same size but the 12HP K301 has a deep oil pan on it. By the looks of that Kohler in yours I would say it came from a Wheel Horse judging by the looks of the starter/generator setup. Someone correct me if I'm wrong on that one, but it looks a LOT like the tinwork that was on the K241 I put in my 100 Cub Cadet that came from a Wheel Horse. If you are looking for an original HH120 to put back into you 12 mine is available. I have never had it running though as it does not have spark. There are ways to correct that though if you follow info provided by others here on the site.

Hopefully when I am done with my repower it will look like it was meant to be in there in the first place. I will say that the Kohlers are physically a quite a bit bigger than the Tecumseh engine is. I've had to do some "engineering" to make mine fit in without too much modification to the tractor. So far I've been able to do it without any changes to the tractor that are visible when assembled. The biggest change I had to make was to notch the frame out for the oil pan to recess thru it. I would guess that on the Kohler in your Massey it has a flat bottom oil pan in it.

Good luck on her, I've seen MUCH worse things come back to life than that.
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#50 Toolpartzman OFFLINE  

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Posted November 20, 2011 - 05:21 PM

IHCUBGUY---Thanks for the info--I may be interested in your 12---I'm not sure what the best choice is, only that since I was a kid, INCREASING HP is what we did and the Kohler 10 just doesn't seem right. Right its much bigger-the std air cleaner could not have been installed with the grill in place and you see where they cut out the grill frame. I would like to start it in place if possible in order to check the hydro.

I'm interested in pics of your fix and in the meantime, I'll examine this install a little closer. They shoehorned it in there for sure.

#51 IHCubGuy OFFLINE  

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Posted November 20, 2011 - 09:53 PM

Here's some pics of mine, but I have mine "shoehorned" in as well. I have the air cleaner on it as well as it being a starter/generator setup and everything works out that I had no cutting of the hood or grill that was necassary. If they had taken a little more time on their install they could have put it in with the air cleaner in place and not had to cut anything in the process. I did have to move some things around and rearrange the way things were setup on the engine, but everything is essentially a bolt in deal. It may not look like the grill and hood are sitting right in the pictures, but thats because there is a C-clamp under the grill holding the starter/generator bracket in place till I get it permenantly mounted. The grill and hood will fit all the way down though and bolt in place and adjust to line up the hood with the dash.

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Edited by IHCubGuy, November 20, 2011 - 11:42 PM.

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#52 Toolpartzman OFFLINE  

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Posted November 21, 2011 - 05:36 AM

Thanks a lot, the pics are a big help. Can you change out the air filter without removing the grill? The way mine is installed-(far rearward as yours,) there isn't enough clearance between the two to remove the air cleaner cap--and filter--to clear the remaining carb mtg bolt and grill. Perhaps if I tried it with a different bolt--one installed AFTER the filter and cap are installed it might make a difference. I'll look this AM. Yours is a nice fit and particularly with the starter mtd forward. Thankx for your help, I may be able to re-route exhaust to the opposite side as well.

#53 Toolpartzman OFFLINE  

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Posted November 21, 2011 - 09:38 AM

This is going to be a great day-I finally found numbers on the Hydro Unit-I posted pics on the mechanical forum for some additional info. Finally, the 'ol girl is revealing herself.

#54 IHCubGuy OFFLINE  

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Posted November 21, 2011 - 09:11 PM

Thanks a lot, the pics are a big help. Can you change out the air filter without removing the grill?


Yes I can. Got room to turn the wing nut without a problem and the cap will come off of the filter element with no problem.

As for how far rear the engine is mounted in the frame rail I was able to use the original bolt holes on the pulley stack side of the frame to locate the engine. Since the holes are the same from front to back on the tractor frame on both engines this gave me a starting point for keeping the engine square in the frame rails. The other two mounting bolt holes on the engine shroud side of the tractor had to be redrilled further to the outside of the frame rail but that was not a problem.

My exhaust will exit out the side of the tractor at the front corner where the hood and grill meet. I am going to make it a vertical exhaust stack for looks but it too clears the hood and grill where it exits the block without modifications.


I did some of the finalizing of the basic install tonite. I have to get a sleeve made yet to adapt the 1" crank to the 1 1/8" stack pulley. I know there are ones that can be bought but since I had to add a pulley for the starter/generator I am going to have one made from a good friend of my dads that is a machinist. The main reason for this is because the crank is actually about an inch short of the outside of the stack pulley. What I did to adapt the new pulley to the setup was to take a type W weldable sprocket hub in 1 1/8". I then got the corresponding size pulley that I needed to keep the right speed relation between the engine and the starter/generator so I have proper cranking speed for the Automatic compression release as well as the right speed to turn it as a generator as well for proper charging. I put both the pulley stack and the new hub onto the crankshaft of the old Tecumseh engine with the original keyway thru both of them for proper alingment and welded them together. Next I welded the new pulley onto the hub so that now I have a 4 stack pulley instead of a 3 stack. This will come into play when I get my sleeve made for the crankshaft. I plan to get a sleeve made that will fit into the entire length of my new 4 pulley setup with the outer 1" of the sleeve being a full 1 1/8" stubshaft that will fit in the void on the end of the crankshaft. Hopefully that makes sense. I will have the keyway cut the entire length of the new adapter/stubshaft to fit a 5/16" x 1/4" keyway along its entire length. With the two setscrews that are provided on the new pulley hub as well as the two setscrews on the original pulley stack it should have enough bite to stay put with out moving. I drew up a picture of what I am making for the machinist to visualize it and thought I'd post it so you could see what I was talking about.

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Edited by IHCubGuy, November 21, 2011 - 11:50 PM.

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#55 Toolpartzman OFFLINE  

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Posted November 22, 2011 - 05:00 AM

This is all VERY helpful---thank you--. Your engine fit looks like a natural set-up. Perhaps my problem lies in the rear-mounted Starter/gen. because the engine exhausts
almost where the hood meets the grill.---Yes they were careless and more. It seems none of the operator controls are connected.---There is misc. sloppy brazing on the hood and grill hinge. My fit or lack of it could be related to the fact that its sitting atop the frame rails instead of nesting between as you've done. I'll take a closer look this AM and do some measuring, but its looking more and more like the wrong way to go.
Consider what you want for your Tecumseh and I'll give due consideration. This is my 1st peak inside an M12 and learning what SHOULD be there is somewhat puzzling, particularly with all the links dangling. -----I have several questions and you can PM me if you prefer.
1) The rear vertical plate (with the sleeve hitch slot) is welded to the frame rails near the top. Is that correct?
2) How difficult is it to find a key.--?---or switch or other misc. pieces?
3) Is your Hydro the same?
I'm installing a carb on my mower swap first thing this AM (Kaw 14 in a JDLX 176) and then I'll turn my attention to the M12. If the Kohler balks at all, I'll yank it off and deal with it later. I'd really like to have more frame space for a second hyd system and the original engine might provide that. I suspect the belts/pulley layout have been molested as well, and my initial goal is to test the hydro which I can do with a 4-HP electric motor if need be.-------Thanks for your input:worshippy1:

#56 IHCubGuy OFFLINE  

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Posted November 22, 2011 - 06:46 PM

I'll post you here in case I give you some wrong information since I too am on my first Massey Ferguson GT. This way the boys that are in the know can chime in if'n I say something incorrect.

On question 1, yes that vertical member with the slot is welded to the frame rails as it is part of the rear frame of the tractor.
2) The key switch should not be a problem to find at all. There are many sources of parts for these tractors. If you have a Massey Ferguson/Agco dealer close by that is the a good place to start as is the AGCO website for looking up parts. There are also different advertisers here on the site that deal in Massey parts as well. Off the top of my head I know that Patton Acres sells parts for them. Someone else may wanna chime in on this question and give some others places that they may know of as well.
3) The hydro I would believe to be the same on them although I do no tknow if there was any updates or changes made to them during their production. Someone else here will no doubt know better than I.

I'll give some thought to the price of the engine as I am not sure what would be fair for it as I do not know anything about it as I bought the tractor with it not running. It seems to have compression and looks to be complete but I do not know how well it runs or if it uses oil or its mechanical shape.

As far as testing the hydro goes, some may laugh but I tested mine by taking the plug outta the Tecumseh and putting another belt on the stack pulley and running it to the pulley on my Troy Bilt tiller and running it over with that. It did the trick though and dint cost me a cent. (except the gas I used in the tiller)LOL!!!

#57 Toolpartzman OFFLINE  

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Posted November 22, 2011 - 08:40 PM

That tiller trick is pretty creative and probably too high-tech for me and I don't own a tiller.----uuuuhm but wait, I do have this pressure washer? lets see ....:bounce:

#58 IHCubGuy OFFLINE  

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Posted November 22, 2011 - 11:17 PM

Going back thru your pictures I just realized why your engine sits so much farther forward than mine does. The Kohler that was put into yours has the other style oil pan where the bolts go thru a flange that sticks out of the pan. My oil pan has the mounting holes as threaded blind holes in the bottom of the pan so it is a smaller pan and it allows the engine to fit back closer to the firewall.
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#59 Toolpartzman OFFLINE  

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Posted February 17, 2012 - 11:00 PM

Well, finally a little bit of progress has been made, so here's an update. The cleaning, cleaning, and cleaning, de-rusting, and priming/painting is nearly done. Time to assemble and decide on an engine.

Thanks for the encouragement and help so far-- :beerchug: (You're not off the hook yet though)
:bigrofl:



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#60 IamSherwood OFFLINE  

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Posted February 18, 2012 - 04:05 AM

Lookin Good. I bet you're getting excited.
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