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Case 444 with weak hydraulic drive power


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#16 NUTNDUN OFFLINE  

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Posted August 30, 2011 - 09:39 PM

So cowhand is it ok to link him to MTF to the Case Hydraulic Test Procedures Manual that he's needing and that you don't have in the GTTalk files? Or are links to all other Case sites taboo?


I think you know the reason behind what you are trying to refer to. So there is no need for that.

We do allow linking to resourceful public information.

#17 NUTNDUN OFFLINE  

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Posted August 30, 2011 - 09:40 PM

Here is the hydraulic system test procedures manual:

Case / Ingersoll Hydraulic System Test Procedures - Manuals - Garden Tractor Talk - Forums

I just scanned it and put it up tonight, didn't realize I had that one. I have about 12 other Case / Ingersoll manuals to add to the site.
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#18 cp7 OFFLINE  

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Posted August 30, 2011 - 10:11 PM

Excellent, as long as the man gets the information that he's needing.
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#19 Billygoat OFFLINE  

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Posted August 31, 2011 - 02:59 PM

The pump has a mounting bracket that attaches to the rear of the engine with four bolts on engine, and two on pump. The shaft from the engine is hooked to the shaft to the pump. The coupling to do this is called a Lovejoy coupling. Google "lovejoy coupling" to get a better understanding of how the pump is coupled to the engine.

#20 mikebramel OFFLINE  

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Posted August 31, 2011 - 09:39 PM

Do you have a problem with the relief valve

#21 NUTNDUN OFFLINE  

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Posted September 02, 2011 - 10:13 AM

Just checking to see how the original poster has made out?

#22 projectnut OFFLINE  

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Posted September 02, 2011 - 01:55 PM

Here's a link to the Lovejoy site.

http://www.lovejoy-inc.com/

The coupling on the front page is a "typical" coupling used in this application. If you look at the back of the motor on your tractor there should be a shield covering the output shaft and the coupling. The 2 outer halves are keyed to the shafts. 1 oter half is keyed to the engine output shaft and the other is keyed to the pump input shaft. Sometimes the keys get loose and over time get rounded to the point thy don't hold the coupling in place. You might also have 1 or more of the keyways worn. The spider is the flexible piece that's sandwiched between the outer halves of the coupling. Sometimes they deteriorate due to vibration or oil soaking. It may have disentigrated.

If you find you need to replace either the coupling or the spider be sure to get pieces rated for the horsepower of your engine. They all look similar but believe me the lighter duty ones will fail catastrophically if pressed beyond their limits. I remember someone putting one rated for 25 hp on a machine with a 100 hp electric motor. It took less than 30 seconds for pieces and parts to start flying around the room. Fortunately the motor and coupling were about 10' in the air. The spider left skid marks on the walls almost all the way around the room when the coupling failed.

#23 bhildret OFFLINE  

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Posted September 04, 2011 - 10:34 AM

Thank you all for the quick replies. Very much appreciated.
To mikebramel: I only blow snow with this tractor... that's why I loaded it with 5W-20. I will do as you suggest... load the system as much as possible.
It also occurred to me that the line going to the gage may have trapped air. I'm a hydraulics dummy... do I need to pull gage off of line to make sure fluid is up against gage?

To JDBrian and KennyP: Thank you both as well. I will look in the manuals area for diagnostic procedure.


Kevin, I have left you an eMail at your business mail address.

I believe the 5W20 is your root cause ... simply not viscous enough for this application. Even thin for winter in your area. I recommend 15W40 for year round in SE Mich, and 10W30 if winter only oil. For sure, 5W20 would not cut it during August ...

Further, I suspect you are tapped in to a lift cylinder circuit, not the main supply circuit. Try exercising the lift while looking for pressure. Up to 600 psi would be normal at lift relief.

This oil will work fine in the lift, but simply bypass the clearances (and not demand much pressure) in the hydraulic motor. Happy to help locally, old friend, if you would like to do that.

Brian

#24 kevincase444 OFFLINE  

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Posted September 05, 2011 - 03:03 PM

Brian, thank you for the offer. I may take you up on that....
On the viscosity point, I only use tractor for blowing snow, that's why the light weight oil (Case recommendation for below freezing). More importantly, I just drained out 10W-30 to perform this diagnosis and before last year, ran straight 30 all the time. I may go back to straight 30 to test your point, but I believe the weak drive has been there across all viscosities. On your other thought of gage being in lift cylinder circuit, definitely not. The test port is right next to 'Spool 1' which is the drive circuit. Spool 2 is the lift circuit Both control valves appear to be sliding their full design lengths.

Mike, how does one determine if there is a problem with relief valve?

p.s. gents..... Found one minor issue.... the 'made in Taiwan' gage I bought from Northern Tool seems to be junk. I removed it from the tractor and hooked it up to an air line. Ran 120 psi from compressor into it and it still reads zero. I need to toss this gage and start over with one made a little closer to home. Stay tuned. I'll be back when I can get real pressure readings.

#25 JDBrian OFFLINE  

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Posted September 05, 2011 - 03:21 PM

This is an interesting thread. I'm staying tuned.




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