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Case 444 with weak hydraulic drive power


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#1 kevincase444 OFFLINE  

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Posted August 28, 2011 - 03:29 PM

My 1974 Case 444 is weak/slow in drive power. Engine is freshly rebuilt by a real pro... no change in drive power. Original owner guide said I should have 2,000 psi in hydraulics. I bought a gage. Put in fresh 5W-20 oil per Case manual (I only use this to blow snow). The gage reads zero in both low and high range.... I don't get it.... thought I'd see at least a few hundred pounds of pressure given the 2,000 spec. The tractor moves, just slowly. To be clear, 'slow' means it moves with me seated on it, but behaves like 5 HP, not 14 HP. The snow caster is great since it's belt driven off of front of engine. Just can't figure out whether I've got a worn out hyd pump or worn out hyd motor on rear differential.

Can anyone please provide diagnostic advice? Don't want to throw parts at tractor until I know true root cause.
I really need the forum's expertise. Thanks a bunch.

Kevin in Milford Michigan

#2 JDBrian OFFLINE  

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Posted August 28, 2011 - 03:49 PM

Kevin, welcome to GTTAlk. There are some manuals for the 444 in the manuals section of this forum. You can download them if you don"t have access to them already. If you have the gauge installed correctly it sounds like you have a pump problem. If you give it some time there should be some more experienced people here who can give you some advice.
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#3 KennyP ONLINE  

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Posted August 28, 2011 - 04:41 PM

Welcome, Kevin. Can't help you on your Case. Hopefully someone will be along shortly to help out.
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#4 mikebramel OFFLINE  

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Posted August 28, 2011 - 09:32 PM

Well you need to provide the most load possible for the hydraulics. So put it in high range, preferably on the concrete and push or pull on something that wont move.
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#5 mikebramel OFFLINE  

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Posted August 28, 2011 - 09:34 PM

Also you want to use 15-40 year round or 30 in the summer, 5-20 is for winter

#6 kevincase444 OFFLINE  

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Posted August 29, 2011 - 09:28 AM

Thank you all for the quick replies. Very much appreciated.
To mikebramel: I only blow snow with this tractor... that's why I loaded it with 5W-20. I will do as you suggest... load the system as much as possible.
It also occurred to me that the line going to the gage may have trapped air. I'm a hydraulics dummy... do I need to pull gage off of line to make sure fluid is up against gage?

To JDBrian and KennyP: Thank you both as well. I will look in the manuals area for diagnostic procedure.

#7 NUTNDUN OFFLINE  

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Posted August 29, 2011 - 10:56 AM

I have a couple of manuals for the 400 series tractors that I need to get scanned. I will see if I can't get a couple of them scanned tonight.

I would purge the line going to the gauge to get a more accurate reading. Air compresses more the hydro fluid.
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#8 olcowhand ONLINE  

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Posted August 29, 2011 - 11:21 AM

Just be sure not to try to hook up the gauge "dead-head" against the pump. Our small "Big Dipper" loader had some issues, so Dad wanted to dead-head the gauge against the pump & just hit the starter with ignition off to get a reading. Don't know where Dad's mind was that day, but he went ahead & did it against my FIRM warning that something would bust. Yep, the engine didn't turn more than 2 pistons up when the pump busted all to pieces the second the pressure built. Dad knows better than that, but must have had a severe brain fart that day.
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#9 Billygoat OFFLINE  

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Posted August 29, 2011 - 01:51 PM

olcowhand-On Case Gt's there is a plug on the valve body to tap into for system drain and to hook up a gauge. Pump won't get dead headed when using that port.
kevincase444- Have you checked the lovejoy coupling, spider for the coupling, and the shaft keys for the coupling? You need to chain that thing to an immovable object and have the travel valve full speed with transaxle in high to get relief to lift. With your gauge hooked up, if you try the hydraulic lift to full travel, you should get about 525psi on gauge. This will head you in right direction. If you have any more problems, feel free to PM me if you want.
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#10 mikebramel OFFLINE  

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Posted August 29, 2011 - 04:15 PM

No, you dont need to bleed the air out

#11 KennyP ONLINE  

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Posted August 29, 2011 - 05:40 PM

Kevin, looks like you are getting the needed help. Hope it's a simple fix for you. Good Luck.

#12 kevincase444 OFFLINE  

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Posted August 30, 2011 - 04:50 PM

Wow, this is the BEST forum. The other two I investigated got zero responses to same isse. Thank you all so much.

1. NUTNDUN: If any manuals have diag procedures for hydraulic drive, that would be great. Much appreciated. Pls let me know.
2. OLCOWHAND: Billygoat is correct. I have gage loaded to a test port in the distribution block. No worries about deadhead / burst.
3. MIKEBRAMEL: Since I still cannot get gage to move off of zero when backed up against a brick wall, RPMs high, and pushing implement lift to max, I pulled the
gage any way to see fluid flow before reinstalling.... no change.
4. BILLYGOAT: Pardon my ignorance, but I do not know which parts are lovejoy coupling, spider for the coupling, and the shaft keys for the coupling. Pls advise.
(System seems fairly simple... I'm sure I can follow your guidance.)

Finally, how do I return a Private Message? Billygoat made nice offer to contact directly, but I did not see a 'Private Message' return button.

THANK YOU ALL !! What a great group. Kevin in Milford, Michigan.

#13 KennyP ONLINE  

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Posted August 30, 2011 - 05:17 PM

Maybe this will help!

PM.jpg

You can hit the reply to message, or type in a reply & hit submit message.

#14 NUTNDUN OFFLINE  

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Posted August 30, 2011 - 07:50 PM

I just scanned a 40 page Case/Ingersoll manual on the hydraulic system. I have a bunch more to scan that deal with the particular parts and will get to them tomorrow but this one should help out at least a little bit.

Case Hydraulic System - How It Works - Manuals - Garden Tractor Talk - Forums

#15 cp7 OFFLINE  

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Posted August 30, 2011 - 08:49 PM

So cowhand is it ok to link him to MTF to the Case Hydraulic Test Procedures Manual that he's needing and that you don't have in the GTTalk files? Or are links to all other Case sites taboo?




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