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White Whale


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#1 xochytl OFFLINE  

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Posted August 15, 2011 - 08:12 AM

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Hey All,
New project, enjoyed my 1965 110 so much I started looking for something with a little more functional use. Decided on a 140 so I could get a bucket and two stage snow blower for the front as well as mowing my lawn with it. I put an ad in Craigslist looking for one to buy cheap. Along comes the white whale.
The last owner had it in his garage for five years and had taken every last piece apart in hopes of making it green again, but never did. He bought lots of extra parts, some really nice stuff that I thought I could sell off to pay for the tractor and still have enough for a build. Integral hitch sleeve, mule drive, new headlight panel, etc...You should have seen his wife grinning when I loaded it up.
Anyway, from what I can tell someone did a really nice job painting it white and replacing a lot of the 1969 parts with ones that match a 1968 patio model. The is a serial number plate in one of the many bags of parts that matches a 69 H3, currently there is only H1 equipment installed although the last owner had bought all the parts to return it to an H3. It also came with a 68 K301 engine, disassembled of course.
I heard that the 1969 H3 triple levers will not fit in a 68 body thinking that might be the definitive way to check and find out exactly which year body I have before I begin. Any thoughts on this or other ways to find out exactly what I have? It definitely is not a real patio model, there is green under the white where the last owner sanded in various places. While I hate someone trying to cheat others I will probably just leave it white and use it around the yard.
Any other ideas?
Michael
1965 110
1969 140H3

IMAG1313_edit0.jpg

Edited by xochytl, August 15, 2011 - 09:33 AM.


#2 JDBrian OFFLINE  

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Posted August 15, 2011 - 09:58 AM

Congratulations on the tractor purchase. It sounds like a good deal to me. All the disassembly and cleaning work has been done. It looks like it is an early 140 (seriel No. less than 30000. The transmission and rearend is different from the later 140's. Those share the axle/hydro assembly with the newer 300 series.
There are lots of 140 owners on here who can give you advice. I have always wanted a 140 but there are just none to be had up here. I managed to get a 314 earlier this year and that is probably as close as i will get. I think you will enjoy it however you decide to go with the color.

#3 xochytl OFFLINE  

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Posted August 15, 2011 - 11:04 AM

Hey Brian, Thanks for the tranny knowledge. The tag with it says 21089 tracked to a parted out 69 H3. Someone must have gone through quite a bit of effort to paint every part, remove the triple hydro, change out the dual brake pedal jack shaft with a single and found a 68 motor to put in it. The lengths people will go to amazes me. Shall see if it's a good deal after the parts already listed on Ebay pay for the whole thing. Hated to give up that hitch sleeve, mule drive, and brand new headlight panel, but free tractor has such a nice ring to it. Even if it is in a thousand pieces.
Still looking for other differences in the 68 and 69 frames or bodies before I start pulling off the last few parts and consider painting it back to green again, was hoping to get it running right away and using it, but might be a good winter project. All the best,
Michael

#4 olcowhand OFFLINE  

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Posted August 15, 2011 - 03:49 PM

member "Texas Deere & Horse" would be better than me to answer this, but to my knowledge that has to be a 69 model, and it would have only came out with 2 hydraulic control levers (H2). Other than the turning brakes, that hydro & diff is identical to that in my Bush Hog JBI tractors.

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#5 JDBrian OFFLINE  

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Posted August 15, 2011 - 04:08 PM

Hey Brian, Thanks for the tranny knowledge. The tag with it says 21089 tracked to a parted out 69 H3. Someone must have gone through quite a bit of effort to paint every part, remove the triple hydro, change out the dual brake pedal jack shaft with a single and found a 68 motor to put in it. The lengths people will go to amazes me. Shall see if it's a good deal after the parts already listed on Ebay pay for the whole thing. Hated to give up that hitch sleeve, mule drive, and brand new headlight panel, but free tractor has such a nice ring to it. Even if it is in a thousand pieces.
Still looking for other differences in the 68 and 69 frames or bodies before I start pulling off the last few parts and consider painting it back to green again, was hoping to get it running right away and using it, but might be a good winter project. All the best,
Michael


Michael, thats what I would do. Restore it and then use it. I have a thing for 140's. I like the looks better than the newer 300's.

#6 johndeereelfman OFFLINE  

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Posted August 15, 2011 - 09:25 PM

Michael, I'm not an expert on the 140's, but I thought one destinctive give away between the '68's and '69's was that, there wasn't a notch in the frame to get to the points on the '68's. After looking at your pictures, I see the notch where the points would be when the motor is mounted, so I'm guessing you have a '69. (The notch is located just above the left front tire, when you're sitting on the tractor.) Again, I'm not an expert, but I was told none of the '68's had this notch. Deere re-designed the frame due to numerous complaints from the technicians who were servicing the tractors.
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#7 xochytl OFFLINE  

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Posted August 15, 2011 - 10:43 PM

Thank you so kindly elf man. Just what I was looking for and what I expected. Might as well finish the disassembly and restore it it's original state. The last owner left a wealth of extra parts, hopefully they will match up well. All the best.

#8 Texas Deere and Horse OFFLINE  

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Posted August 15, 2011 - 11:45 PM

Hey Brian, Thanks for the tranny knowledge. The tag with it says 21089 tracked to a parted out 69 H3. Someone must have gone through quite a bit of effort to paint every part, remove the triple hydro, change out the dual brake pedal jack shaft with a single and found a 68 motor to put in it. The lengths people will go to amazes me. Shall see if it's a good deal after the parts already listed on Ebay pay for the whole thing. Hated to give up that hitch sleeve, mule drive, and brand new headlight panel, but free tractor has such a nice ring to it. Even if it is in a thousand pieces.
Still looking for other differences in the 68 and 69 frames or bodies before I start pulling off the last few parts and consider painting it back to green again, was hoping to get it running right away and using it, but might be a good winter project. All the best,
Michael



Michael, First off, WELCOME to GT talk. Glad your here with us. Secondly, John Deere didn't make a Custom Color tractor in 1968. By the ID. number you listed, you have a 1969 John Deere 140. You need to find any spot that hasn't been repainted, you may actually have a Custom Color, (Patio) tractor. 1969 was the only year that JD. didn't give you Patio tractors their own Serial number to prove it's a Patio. Did you get the original seat or hood with the tractor. The seat pan on the Patio's had a textured metal finish, in stead of the usual smooth finish, also if the pan has any of the trim around the edge, you can lift it off and look for a custom color seat cover. The hood, if original, will be a custom color under the green paint. If you take your time, you can remove the ID. tag, there may be the original paint under it, most people don't remove them during a resto..I hope this info helps you out..Good Luck !!
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#9 xochytl OFFLINE  

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Posted August 16, 2011 - 10:17 AM

Thanks Brian, I will check the seat when I get home from work, but have found green paint under the white in several places where the last owner sanded some off down to the metal. Unless they were painted green first then white, this is someones attempt at a fake patio model. The hood has yellow paint, but is green underneath. The tag is already off and was in the bag of parts, not sure if it matches or not, but it seems about right. I know the engine does not match being a K301 12hp. Either way I will only be using it for personal use and just want a cost free mower out of it. Lots of labor, but no money out of pocket after selling off some spare parts. Thanks kindly for your help.

#10 Texas Deere and Horse OFFLINE  

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Posted August 17, 2011 - 11:57 AM

The Patio tractors were painted white at the factory, never had green paint under the white.

#11 JDBrian OFFLINE  

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Posted August 17, 2011 - 03:19 PM

This really is a bit of a mystery. In the end you will have a nice 140 regardless of it's origins.

#12 Texas Deere and Horse OFFLINE  

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Posted August 17, 2011 - 04:06 PM

I just also noticed on my 140's, that all of the 69 model's I have, have no cutout for the points cover. 1970 and newer year model have the cutout in the frame like in your picture. What type of brakes does your tractor have, disc or drum?

#13 xochytl OFFLINE  

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Posted August 18, 2011 - 07:56 AM

Turns out the seat is not original, almost new. It has disk brakes with a single pedal though the last owner kindly bought the shaft with three pedals and some different brake rods to go with it in case I want to make it with dual brake pedals. Thought I had it solved with the points notch, but perhaps not. Thanks for all the help. M

#14 MAV OFFLINE  

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Posted August 19, 2011 - 09:29 PM

69 140's was the only year that did not have the frame notched out for the points. In 69 they used a solid state type ignition and alot of them have been changed over to the traditional coil system. And either the notch was cut of of the frame or a hole was drilled in the frame to get to the bottom points cover bolt.

The 68 140's frame in the front where the hydralic coupler comes out was a solid piece and not bolted in. So that should rule it out being a 68 frame.
Deere never produced a H2 140 only H3 and H1's. There was a prototype in 68 that was built that was a H2 though. But no one to my knowledge has ever seen it but it was built and was used for pictures in the operator manuals. There was several other differences also that never went into production.

If it is an original 68 140 K301 engine it would have the dipstick coming straight up to the top of the head and you would have to open the hood to check the oil. Later engines had the dipstick come out the right side of the engine at an angle.

Mark

#15 JDBrian OFFLINE  

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Posted August 20, 2011 - 06:05 AM

Mark, your knowledge of these tractors is quite amazing. This is all good to know for anyone who is looking at these tractors.




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