Jump to content

Garden Tractors and Parts on eBay

- - - - -

Kohler K161 - Leaded , Unleaded, ethanol ? input needed.

  • Please log in to reply
18 replies to this topic

#16 hatedge OFFLINE  


    Beer Guzzling Canuck

  • Senior Member
  • Member No: 9737
  • 293 Thanks
  • 577 posts
  • Location: St-jean-de-matha, Qc, Canada

Posted August 03, 2012 - 07:25 AM

ah, up here weve the same set up. regular and mid gas have 10% ethanol but premium 91 octane doesnt. Ive been using premium since reading all these studies about gas and older engines. Its been 2 years now and I havent changed a single rubber gas line on my machines or rebuilt any carb. I yet have to overhaul one of my engines to see the deposits inside but im pretty confident. I also use it in my car and immediately could feel more power and quicker response. After a week of the stuff with no ethanol and high octane, the car runs smoother. I dont use anything else.

Ill try and find them papers on old engines vs nes gas and post them for you guys

Edited by hatedge, August 03, 2012 - 07:26 AM.

  • MailmAn said thank you

#17 hatedge OFFLINE  


    Beer Guzzling Canuck

  • Senior Member
  • Member No: 9737
  • 293 Thanks
  • 577 posts
  • Location: St-jean-de-matha, Qc, Canada

Posted August 03, 2012 - 08:37 AM

Im still looking to find the REAL studies ive read before but heres a little readin for now. Cheers ;)


Ethanol, aka Grain Alcohol, is the same alcohol we drink to get drunk (if you want to take it that far). It is "denatured" to make it undrinkable so it can be sold without worry of abuse. For cars it is sold as E10, E85, E100... etc. This means "E-Ethanol" and 10%, 85%, 100%.... with the other proportion being gasoline. Alcohol will carry an electrical current and gasoline will not so the higher the percentage of alchol the more "galvanic corrosion" you get in your fuel system due to electrical current between unlike metals and also erosion of incompatible materials.(for those of you whom are not versed in science certain materials when in contact will produce electron exchange and rust or oxydize if you prefer) Incompatible material are rubber and aluminum which alcohol is exceptional hard on over time there is also brass,copper and a lot of alloys. Basically the materials that are good to use in gasoline systems are bad to use in alcohol systems and vice versa. Most fuel systems not rated as "flexifuel" have incompatible materials in them. Running even 10% Ethanol (common these days) will have an impact on your car and reduce its useful life. There are also other problems... alchohol runs at about 19:1 parts (alcohol to air--by weight) gasoline at 14.7:1... so by running alcohol you are running lean...and the float that tells your system when the carburator float bown is full is no longer correct because of density differences. Electronic fuel injection systems can make on-the-fly adjustments to air fuel ratio because of a closed loop in the computer that constantly takes a measure of the oxygen levels in the exhaust gas and if there is oxygen then knows the system is running lean and increases the fuel amount injected. Running alchohol also decreases your fuel economy somewhat... pure E100 fuel econonmy is terrible (about half that of gasoline). The performance you can get out of alchohol is better with an Octane equivalency of about 108 octane for E100... about 103 for E10 (pump gas available nationally with Ehtanol). Thing is you dont get that much octane at the pump!!

Edited by hatedge, August 03, 2012 - 08:48 AM.

  • MailmAn said thank you

#18 MailmAn OFFLINE  

  • Senior Member
  • Member No: 10315
  • 389 Thanks
  • 776 posts
  • Location: Albany, NY

Posted August 03, 2012 - 08:50 AM

So in other words, it is crap, engines doesn't run right on it (even fuel injection has to over-compensate for it), you get WORSE fuel economy (which I thought they were going for BETTER fuel economy?), and politicians are STUPID MF'ers for making laws requiring its use? I say vote all them bums out and get in "good politicans" (I know, an oxymoron...) and tell them we want the ethanol removed from our gas! (Among other things...)

I've also been wondering why all these small new cars aren't getting better fuel economy. With all the technology and economy requirements, you'd think we would be driving cars that get 40-50 MPG easily without being a hybrid. But with the ethanol in the gas hurting fuel economy as well as government standards changing how they calculate MPG, at least the window stickers on new cars have pretty bad estimated MPG numbers. I saw a new Suzuki Kizashi in the mall that is a 4 cylinder and the window sticker said it only got like 26MPG highway! I'd expect a small Japanese car to get much better fuel economy than that!! I'd assume depending on how you drive, you could get better actual MPG numbers than that though...
  • hatedge said thank you

#19 bolens1053 OFFLINE  



  • Senior Member
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 1997
  • 55 Thanks
  • 146 posts

Posted August 03, 2012 - 05:02 PM

Where are you getting leaded gas? Just adding lead additive to regular gasoline? I know you can buy race gas (expensive!!!) but that is super-high octane (110-120 octane) with lead added and IDK if an old engine would like running that. It also would probably run much hotter.

I heard at least in NY (maybe other states have not followed suit yet) that you CANNOT buy ethanol-free gasoline anymore ANYWHERE. I have asked around a LOT including asking gas station owners who used to sell ethanol free gas 2-3 years ago. They told me that a law was passed that phased out all ethanol-free gas and a gas station can ONLY sell gasoline without ethanol in it if they have above-ground storage tanks, which I'm sure are also outlawed as all new gas stations must have in-ground plastic storage tanks. So, effectively, they have outlawed ethanol-free gas across NY state. It's bullshit if you ask me. Stupid gubment! They should at least offer people the option and if E-10 gas is cheaper, maybe more people will buy it. But if you want to pay a bit more and get ethanol free, IDK why you shouldn't be able to. It is driving up food prices forcing ethanol gas on everyone as corn is harder to find for use in food products if it is being turned into gasoline.

It is funny though, back in the late 1970's-early 1980's, there was an episode of "The Dukes of Hazzard" where the Duke boys were going to make up a batch of moonshine to bring to an alternative-fuel expo, only to be pursued by none-other than Sheriff Rosco P. Coltrane and Boss Hogg. Of course, they made it to the expo and won the prize for their moonshine gas alternative, but were denied any prize money as they had to do "feasibility studies" on the ethanol to see if it would be effective as a gas substitute. Now we see that I guess the government found it feasible and is mandating its use finally... lol. Besides, just because you CAN run an old 1970's car on corn whiskey for a short period of time doesn't mean that you should do it ALL the time. Personally, I think this was a deliberate attempt to break-down older (non-environmentally-friendly) engines so that people would have to scrap their old cars, trucks, and equipment eventually for new ones that will run on the E-10 gas better.

Of course, I'm pissed off because I JUST rebuilt the carb on my 1975 Plymouth Fury last year and it was running great. I took it out this past weekend and the engine cut off on me while I was driving and I had to pull over. I found gas leaking out of the carburetor everyplace it possibly could and running all over a hot engine. NOT GOOD!!! So, I had to have it towed back home and now I have to pull the carb off and have it rebuilt again not even a year later! Just before this happened as well, I sprung a gas leak in one of my rubber hoses leading from the fuel pump to the fuel filter. I replaced the bad lines and put a new fuel filter in it for good measure, but noticed that the old lines were very spongy and the insides were soft and sticky, like the rubber has been eaten away. It looked like a clogged artery or something. I'm sure some of that nasty, sticky rubbery residue came off over time and clogged my carburetor up which caused a float to stick and leak gas all over. The ethanol also prolly ate away at some of the carb gaskets as well making the fuel leak out once the float stuck. I'm just not happy about it at all!!! <img src='http://gardentractor...DIR#>/mecry.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':mecry:' /> <img src='http://gardentractor...wallbanging.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':wallbanging:' />

Well im located in wisconsin and at the fleet farm gas station you can get ethanol free gas for an extra 30 cents a gallon