8 replies to this topic

[dodge trucker]

I got this dang thing dumped in my lap way too long ago, to fix for a friend of mine. No spark, minimal compression... 

I have NO service information on this thing. None. I asked here for a manual months ago and Kenny came up with an owners manual and I think a parts manual  but neither really details how this dang thing comes apart. Did I say I have never worked on one?  

I do have to say THANKS, for what was found and posted here. 

I again spent (wasted) another afternoon online, searching for the info I am after. and still came up dry again. 

In trying to troubleshoot the no spark situation, I took the flywheel off and discovered everything packed in hardened concrete dust, I cleaned that up best I could,  I took off the muffler and found same thing, put that into my glass bead cabinet and it finally came clean,

took alot of time to get it there...

stuck the nozzle of the cabinet gun inside the ports (of the muffler, once I had it off/  NOT the cylinder!!! I ain't that crazy or dumb)  and cleaned within the muffler, the best I could......  

so I went back to figuring the spark and I discovered that if I spun it with the plug out, and used my Milwaukee 3/8" cordless impact with a hot fresh battery I could get an intermittent spark....  I would up stripping the flywheel nut, had a He11 of a time getting that back off with a Dremel and a small chisel,  fortunately the nut sacrificed itself instead of the crank threads... 

looked in the exhaust port with a borescope and could see the cylinder wall was badly scored.... 

I wanted to punt this thing away, until I saw how expensive these saws are//// there are 2 on Epay right now for $350 ish that have definitely seen better days.... I saw an NOS one on there last fall that the seller wanted $1,000 for yikes... I have no idea how old this thing is. but being they are that "salty" I guess it is worth putting some time and money into. 

I bought a complete rebuild kit from Epay...crank, rod, piston, cylinder, carb kit, gaskets all in 1 box.... aftermarket, $169 quite a while ago. 

 

I shop at HF EXTREMELY rarely, but I had bought a set of T handle torx  specifically for this job..... misplaced them, cannot find them.... so I went back today and bought another set to (try to) finish disassembly of this thing..... got the outer bell off the clutch, there is a sleeve that the needle bearing within that clutch bell (belt pulley) rides on,  that will not budge.... that has to come off to get the clutch off so I can split the housing....... don't want to use chanellocks on it or heat... it is obviously a bearing surface for that needle bearing. From what I can see that needle bearing is still available but the sleeve isn't. It is keyed to the crank, by looking at the new crank. HOW DOES THAT COME OFF???? and then how do I get the clutch off? No threads apparently to hold that to the crank....  

 

Has anyone here ever worked on one? Does anyone know where I can find a service/ repair manual ? (prefer paper version, I have no computer or wifi in the garage) I'd be willing to buy a manual.... I'm already way deep into this thing as it is, I just need it done and gone!!!!!! 

Edited by dodge trucker, April 07, 2018 - 05:38 PM.

[KennyP]

I feel your pain! I have a chainsaw version of that, been 40 years since I worked on one of these!

[James Bosma]

I'm wondering what the magnets are like on the flywheel, are they strong or week

If the magnets are weak it will cause the spark issue you are talking about

I play with Johnson Iron Horse engines from the 40's and have had the same issue

Swap out the flywheel and engine runs good

If magnets are strong then I'm leaning towards the coil be defective,

Hope this helps

Edited by James Bosma, April 07, 2018 - 07:53 PM.

[James Bosma]

Not sure if this will help

 

 

got it from here  https://www.diyspare...9904-4867-a739/

 

good luck, will ask around about the paper manual your looking for

 

looks like it just slides on to me

Edited by James Bosma, April 07, 2018 - 08:01 PM.

[dodge trucker]

ok, did get it apart.... probably not how I was supposed to, but no further carnage.... clutch is off, crank and bearings are out.  

Had to use the bead blast cabinet a lot more than I wanted to along the way, they must have cut a lot of wet-below-the-surface concrete over the years with this thing...  maybe why they include new crank main bearings with the rebuild kit????    this thing was caked EVERYWHERE, with hardened concrete dust.....    I glass- beaded  the case and "solid" half of air cleaner housing, (not the removeable cover portion of the filter housing, just the portion that bolts to carb)  as the saw was coming apart...  there are a lot of strengthening ribs ("bosses") within this case..... lots of nooks and crannies to fill with concrete dust.... I'd bet this thing comes up 10 lbs lighter when reassembled, than it was when I got it.  I did find a directional arrow on the belt guard that I never knew was there.... and what I can only assume is a serial number.  I wonder how old this saw really is? Any way to tell? 

 

It does have a Tillotson diaphragm style carb on it, I have not seen anything recent from them in forever.... and everything I can find online (mostly consists of ads on Ebay for people selling carbs from these saws)  says that it is probably the original "right" carb that was on it when new....if that is an indicator of age--or not. 

 

I'd like to throw a quick coat of paint on it, I just dusted everything, heavy enough to get the concrete off of everything/ I didn't try to take all the paint off (these pieces are cast aluminum) though I did in a few spots, where it was chipped. Left the paint that is left, just "roughened up".  

Whatever they used for paint, is stuck, but good....  I'm thinking of some Appliance White. 

 

next question, once I clean everything out real good before I start to put this thing back together.... 

There is a gasket between the case halves. The case halves also join together to form the 2 halves of the fuel tank which I obviously do not want to leak.... should I put the new case-half gasket that gets sandwiched between them in dry, or if not what kind of sealer should I use in there??? 

 

hopefully torque values aren't super critical as there are many that are not accessible besides with a very long T handle torx driver.. I have never seen torx bits for 1/4 or 3/8 square drive long enough to access about half of the case bolts or the cylinder to case bolts..... gonna have no choice but to torque this one back together by "feel"..... 

 

and James, I mess with old outboards too.... biggest ignition issue I come across is cracked coils.  In answer to your question about the flywheel magnets, I did get another flywheel off of Ebay a while back, right after the fight with the Dremel and the skinny chisel on the stripped flywheel retainer nut just in case I wound up with a crack in it that I cannot see.....   I'm thinking that getting the hardened concrete dust off the mag unit might help  get the spark back... I'm hoping anyways. 

Edited by dodge trucker, April 07, 2018 - 08:11 PM.

[James Bosma]

Have to like the old technology compared to todays

With Johnson I have used a lawn boy coil in a 1952 2 cycle Iron horse, same coil just different mount,

Pulled the wedges and swapped coil, runs great

Yes that dust will get into every tiny spot

Brick layers use them at work and the dust is so small it goes where it wants

 

Sounds like it has lived a good life and needs that rebuild 

Glad its apart, 

Yes, getting rid of that crap will help the magnets

[dodge trucker]

yeah/ I say the same thing about old tech vs new tech  ALL THE TIME!!!!  cars trucks tractors home stereos, power tools, practically everything....    now to get this saw back together and into a single piece so it can go back to its owner and I can get my work bench that it has been sprawled across all winter, back...... so I can rebuild my Kohler K series engines standing up, rather than hands and knees style.... if we ever get out of winter, he will be asking for it! 

[dodge trucker]

I feel your pain! I have a chainsaw version of that, been 40 years since I worked on one of these!

so how old would you say this is??  
​I glass bead blasted the housing as I had it apart to clean off all the dried concrete residue off of it and I did uncover what I think might be a serial number. 

 

Question..... (its already together past that point, but now is the time to backtrack if need be before I get it any closer to being a running machine again..)   There is a gasket between the 2 halves of the case/gas tank.... does this get put together dry or should I have used some kind of sealant on it?    One thing I will say.... those 2 dowel pins  that line things up, go in TIGHT!!!! 

I had to go around and around and around the case with a T handle torx like 1/2 turn at a time to draw it all together..... it pried apart hard as well.... 

[KennyP]

The saw I have was bought used in the 70's.  Can't say for sure, but mine is pre-torx I believe!