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Cub 169? Getting it running

cub 169

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#61 IHCubGuy OFFLINE  

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Posted February 25, 2018 - 11:36 AM

That STINKS! I've been in that situation before and it came back to haunt me. I now make it a habit to tear things down and check them out good when I don't know their past. For example when I bought my DC Case farm tractor I picked it up on a windy 14 degree day. It started off to load like a dream and when we got it home a slight pull of the choke and it was off and running. I gave it a few laps around the field and thought heck this thing is good to go engine wise. It ran super quiet and didn't miss or carry on or anything. Woohoo, life is good.

Fast forward to tear down time. I pulled the head only because I was wanted to put on a new head gasket so I had no leaks after paint. Much to my surprise when I pulled it I found 2 horribly burnt exhaust valves on #1 and #2 cylinder's. After removing them from the head all the exhaust seats were burned bad as well. I checked the bores and the piston's all had at least a 1/16" gap around them. Time for further tear down and pretty extensive surgery. I learned that the cam thrust washer which was made of fiber from the factory often needs replaced. When I pulled the cam the washer was non existent and the new one made by some knowledgeable Case guru's is brass so it will last forever now. Lot's of other things along the tear down that were questionable as well So needless to say it needed extensive repair.

After that I chance nothing and make sure all is well first off. Not to say you did it wrong, just my experience that it seems to come back to bite a guy when not investigated. By the way, I'm jealous. A 169 is on my list to own one day. I had a 1450 I wish I would have never sold years ago. Maybe a 169 can replace it someday.

 

Here's a pic of the one valve and the better of the 4 exhaust seats.  It's amazing it ran the way it did.

Attached Thumbnails

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Edited by IHCubGuy, February 25, 2018 - 11:42 AM.

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#62 secondtry ONLINE  

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Posted February 25, 2018 - 12:30 PM

   I have a Kohler on a Lincoln welder that was given to me. The people were using it to provide their camper with 110 and didn't keep up with the oil. the crank looked very similar to yours. Used a pocket knife, razor blade, and super fine emery cloth to very gently clean the crank. Micrometer said it was OK. The rod had hit the cam and made a tiny crack in it. The cam looked fine and turned fine most of the way around but felt a little funny in one spot. I didn't find the crack until i got it out. Got new Piston, rings, rod, and gasket set. Used cam from ebay. Cleaned it all up reassembled and good to go. I know of a lot of less enjoyable ways to waste time and spend money.  Don


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#63 EricR OFFLINE  

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Posted February 25, 2018 - 12:33 PM

Sad, we have 2 149'S that the oil pans will come off and see if they still have the balance gears in them and will be checked out with a fine tooth comb ...
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#64 Mark 149 J. ONLINE  

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Posted February 25, 2018 - 05:31 PM

That STINKS! I've been in that situation before and it came back to haunt me. I now make it a habit to tear things down and check them out good when I don't know their past. For example when I bought my DC Case farm tractor I picked it up on a windy 14 degree day. It started off to load like a dream and when we got it home a slight pull of the choke and it was off and running. I gave it a few laps around the field and thought heck this thing is good to go engine wise. It ran super quiet and didn't miss or carry on or anything. Woohoo, life is good.

Fast forward to tear down time. I pulled the head only because I was wanted to put on a new head gasket so I had no leaks after paint. Much to my surprise when I pulled it I found 2 horribly burnt exhaust valves on #1 and #2 cylinder's. After removing them from the head all the exhaust seats were burned bad as well. I checked the bores and the piston's all had at least a 1/16" gap around them. Time for further tear down and pretty extensive surgery. I learned that the cam thrust washer which was made of fiber from the factory often needs replaced. When I pulled the cam the washer was non existent and the new one made by some knowledgeable Case guru's is brass so it will last forever now. Lot's of other things along the tear down that were questionable as well So needless to say it needed extensive repair.

After that I chance nothing and make sure all is well first off. Not to say you did it wrong, just my experience that it seems to come back to bite a guy when not investigated. By the way, I'm jealous. A 169 is on my list to own one day. I had a 1450 I wish I would have never sold years ago. Maybe a 169 can replace it someday.

 

Here's a pic of the one valve and the better of the 4 exhaust seats.  It's amazing it ran the way it did.

I will be doing that in the future from here on out!  That valve and valve seat looked awful!  I bet it ran and looked good when you finished with it.  Do you still have the tractor? Pictures?

It's nice owning something that other like or want!  I meet a guy at the Yakima WA show who wanted to buy the Danco loader off of my 149.  I wasn't even interested in selling so I never ask how much he would be willing to pay.    I didn't realize how few of the 169 were made until owning this one.  Makes you feel lucky!  About a year ago a person in Spokane WA was selling a 169 with a Johnson loader for $1500.  It also came with a parts tractor.  He bought it to flip because I had seen it on CL the day it when up for sale for $800.

Once I get the crank out I was going to soak it in muriatic acid to remove the aluminium from the journal.  I've never done this before. Have you?  If so, any recommendations?  Any tricks or tips on the rebuild?

 

Thanks


Edited by Mark 149 J., February 25, 2018 - 05:37 PM.


#65 Mark 149 J. ONLINE  

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Posted February 25, 2018 - 05:34 PM

Sad, we have 2 149'S that the oil pans will come off and see if they still have the balance gears in them and will be checked out with a fine tooth comb ...

I'll say!  Interesting thing is this engine only had one large balance gear and not two like the 12 hp motors.  



#66 Mark 149 J. ONLINE  

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Posted February 25, 2018 - 05:37 PM

   I have a Kohler on a Lincoln welder that was given to me. The people were using it to provide their camper with 110 and didn't keep up with the oil. the crank looked very similar to yours. Used a pocket knife, razor blade, and super fine emery cloth to very gently clean the crank. Micrometer said it was OK. The rod had hit the cam and made a tiny crack in it. The cam looked fine and turned fine most of the way around but felt a little funny in one spot. I didn't find the crack until i got it out. Got new Piston, rings, rod, and gasket set. Used cam from ebay. Cleaned it all up reassembled and good to go. I know of a lot of less enjoyable ways to waste time and spend money.  Don

I hope to get that lucky! 

Have you ever used muriatic acid to clean-off the aluminium before?



#67 secondtry ONLINE  

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Posted February 25, 2018 - 06:46 PM

I hope to get that lucky! 

Have you ever used muriatic acid to clean-off the aluminium before?

  Nope Have some muriatic acid now but never used it. I have heard of it. doing it by hand was not bad took about 20 minutes. Don


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#68 olcowhand ONLINE  

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Posted February 25, 2018 - 08:13 PM

I've used the acid to remove the aluminum gall, and it works nice!  Doesn't touch the steel, but sure eats off the aluminum.  May take several applications with a brush unless you do soak it, and do this in an airy environment, as you don't wanna breathe the fumes that come off the eating action of the acid.  NOT good for you!


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#69 IHCubGuy OFFLINE  

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Posted February 25, 2018 - 09:16 PM

I will be doing that in the future from here on out!  That valve and valve seat looked awful!  I bet it ran and looked good when you finished with it.  Do you still have the tractor? Pictures?

It's nice owning something that other like or want!  I meet a guy at the Yakima WA show who wanted to buy the Danco loader off of my 149.  I wasn't even interested in selling so I never ask how much he would be willing to pay.    I didn't realize how few of the 169 were made until owning this one.  Makes you feel lucky!  About a year ago a person in Spokane WA was selling a 169 with a Johnson loader for $1500.  It also came with a parts tractor.  He bought it to flip because I had seen it on CL the day it when up for sale for $800.

Once I get the crank out I was going to soak it in muriatic acid to remove the aluminium from the journal.  I've never done this before. Have you?  If so, any recommendations?  Any tricks or tips on the rebuild?

 

Thanks

 

The tractor is not done yet.  I have most of the parts and it is all but disassembled.  It will be a NO bolt left unturned restoration.  It is in my cellar and was to be a winter project that got done this year.  Problem is there is just not enough time in the day for everything.  The biggest distraction (and by NO means is it a distraction) is my daughter.  She's been wanting to spend more time doing things lately and I refuse to say no to her because she is more important than an old tractor in my cellar that I'm fixing.  Even though it's in memory of my son, she comes first.  Beyond that there is overtime at work with snow plowing, I was recently appointed the building "super" at church and then there is about 20 other things a week that takes time away from it.  Since I refuse to cut corners on it I had been saving and buying things little by little as I could.  I could buy a" few" restored GT's for what I have in the DC so far.  In the end it will all be worth it though.

 

As for the muriatic acid, sorry I can't help you there but Olcowhand looks to have your back on that one.


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#70 Mark 149 J. ONLINE  

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Posted February 25, 2018 - 11:17 PM

The tractor is not done yet.  I have most of the parts and it is all but disassembled.  It will be a NO bolt left unturned restoration.  It is in my cellar and was to be a winter project that got done this year.  Problem is there is just not enough time in the day for everything.  The biggest distraction (and by NO means is it a distraction) is my daughter.  She's been wanting to spend more time doing things lately and I refuse to say no to her because she is more important than an old tractor in my cellar that I'm fixing.  Even though it's in memory of my son, she comes first.  Beyond that there is overtime at work with snow plowing, I was recently appointed the building "super" at church and then there is about 20 other things a week that takes time away from it.  Since I refuse to cut corners on it I had been saving and buying things little by little as I could.  I could buy a" few" restored GT's for what I have in the DC so far.  In the end it will all be worth it though.

 

As for the muriatic acid, sorry I can't help you there but Olcowhand looks to have your back on that one.

I'd say you have your priorities perfectly in order!

I was unaware that you had lost your son.  I am sorry to hear that happened!

Thanks for your help!


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#71 Mark 149 J. ONLINE  

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Posted February 25, 2018 - 11:20 PM

I've used the acid to remove the aluminum gall, and it works nice!  Doesn't touch the steel, but sure eats off the aluminum.  May take several applications with a brush unless you do soak it, and do this in an airy environment, as you don't wanna breathe the fumes that come off the eating action of the acid.  NOT good for you!

Good advice!!

I was planning on soaking mine in the acid.

Thanks for the help!



#72 Mark 149 J. ONLINE  

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Posted March 05, 2018 - 12:48 AM

I finally got some more time to tear into the engine.  I removed the flywheel and bearing plate.  I tried to remove the mechanical PTO but was unable to figure out why it wouldn't come off.  I removed both sets of set screws in the 3 holes and it still won't move.  I hate removing these PTO on the Cubs!  They always fight me!  I hate the design!! :mad2:

I found out that the engine did have two balance gears.  The upper boss broke off but it looks like the block is still usable. 

20180304_204612_LI.jpg 20180304_204557_LI (2).jpg

I was able to remove the paint off the engine tag as well and here is what that looks like.

20180304_204316.jpg

I don't know if the tag is really all that helpful because the engine is a replacement.

I remove the piston and discovered the piston skirt is broken as well as a ring.

20180304_204450.jpg 20180304_204502.jpg

The cylinder wall looks in good shape at least! :dancingbanana:


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#73 EricFromPa ONLINE  

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Posted April 10, 2018 - 09:17 AM

Going to have to tap the back side of that balance gear boss and put a plug in it. They go the whole way through unless it has the welch plugs in it. I had one with welch plugs behind the pins and one that didn't.

 

Hoping you can save her. Cylinder bore looks like it has a little wear but nothing a good set of rings and a Light honing can't fix.  


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#74 Mark 149 J. ONLINE  

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Posted April 10, 2018 - 09:23 AM

Going to have to tap the back side of that balance gear boss and put a plug in it. They go the whole way through unless it has the welch plugs in it. I had one with welch plugs behind the pins and one that didn't.

 

Hoping you can save her. Cylinder bore looks like it has a little wear but nothing a good set of rings and a Light honing can't fix.  

 

When I get the time, I'm going to see if that piston, rod, and crank that I bought from you will work in it. 


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#75 dodge trucker ONLINE  

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Posted April 10, 2018 - 11:29 AM

Yeah, that tag should still be relevant unless they took the sheet metal off of the original engine and put on to this one.
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