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B112 starting issues.


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#1 steve b OFFLINE  

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Posted January 15, 2018 - 12:27 PM

Hi, am having cold weather starting issues.  it is firing, I get popping in the carb but no ignition. I also have to crank for a couple of minutes before I get anything at all. This is the easiest thing to start in the summer but damp and below about 40 it is near impossible. I do have good compression, spark and fuel. I put in a new plug as well. I actually wonder if the starter generator is not turning it fast enough? It. has been rebuilt but they just turn so slowly compared to modern engines. Ideas?

And Thanks in advance!


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#2 John Arsenault OFFLINE  

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Posted January 15, 2018 - 12:43 PM

Could be the oil you have in the engine if your cranking over slow. Many modern oils with friction inhibitors turn to glue like substance when cold. I use synthetic oil and all year round I can start with out issues even in the low negatives. Also the cold brings out the true battery test, if your battery is at all weak it will show when its really cold. I had a battery that was great all summer then came the cold and it was done, put a new battery in and it was like summer time again. 

 

The starter gens do turn over a bit slower then geared starters but that should not stop you from starting even in the bitter cold. I see many people run a straight weight oil in their older engines to prevent smoke, you won't get away with that up here in Maine. I run Mobile 1 European formula 0-40w  all year round in my cars and tractors. 

 

Hope this don't start another oil debate....lol


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#3 steve b OFFLINE  

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Posted January 15, 2018 - 12:50 PM

Thanks for the quick reply John,

I forgot to mention these things. I have a brand new 285 cca battery and I am running fully synthetic 5w-20 in it for the winter. It turns over as fast as you can say boyt boyt boyt. Once a second or so.


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#4 tater195 OFFLINE  

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Posted January 15, 2018 - 01:02 PM

My money is on a sticky intake valve. Have you run a compression test?



#5 James Bosma OFFLINE  

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Posted January 15, 2018 - 01:02 PM

I have tarp my tractor and place a heater under tarp for a hour or so when it wouldn't start 

Make sure heater is away from engine as far as possible

This will warm everything up and it will most likely start

It could be turning over just that little bit to slow to start,

 

Mine started right up 



#6 John Arsenault OFFLINE  

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Posted January 15, 2018 - 01:23 PM

Thanks for the quick reply John,

I forgot to mention these things. I have a brand new 285 cca battery and I am running fully synthetic 5w-20 in it for the winter. It turns over as fast as you can say boyt boyt boyt. Once a second or so.

I think 285 maybe a bit low for a 12 hp briggs w/starter gen. I use a 350 in mine. Anyway you can put a jumper on it and try it cold to see if its maybe just to little of amps?



#7 classic OFFLINE  

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Posted January 15, 2018 - 02:04 PM

That Briggs should fire right up, even in the cold if it's spinning fast enough. I had a stubborn 16hp Briggs and the points were what kept giving me trouble. Make sure your flywheel is clean, your armature air gap is in spec, and swap out the points and condenser. For starters, I would just put new points and a condenser in it and see how it starts. Make sure the points cover is completely sealed, especially where the wire or wires pass under the points cover. You just put a blob of silicone where the wire goes under the cover. If you don't seal the cover, the points will corrode every time it rains. I went through this before, so I seal all of the points covers good now on my engines.

Edited by classic, January 15, 2018 - 02:05 PM.

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#8 Dee OFFLINE  

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Posted January 16, 2018 - 09:12 PM

 

I get popping in the carb but no ignition

 

That's a good indicator the engine isn't spinning fast enough to start. 

 

Make sure there's no load on any of the belts which might bog down the engine. 

 

Check the tension on the starting belt.  Once on mine,  I noticed the starter was spinning faster than the belt was moving.


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#9 steve b OFFLINE  

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Posted January 17, 2018 - 09:59 AM

Thanks,

I am going to replace the belt Saturday. Oh, my battery is 425 cca.


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#10 Dee OFFLINE  

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Posted January 18, 2018 - 12:01 AM

Another thing I did for my  B-110  was replace the points and condenser with an electronic ignition from NOVA.  Probably the best upgrade I ever did. With $20 and 20 minutes of effort, my engine never started easier or ran better.


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#11 steve b OFFLINE  

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Posted January 18, 2018 - 09:25 AM

Yes,

Mine has electronic ignition as well. I am however thinking of replacing the module as well.



#12 Dee OFFLINE  

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Posted January 19, 2018 - 12:38 AM

If you have good compression, then I'd check for air leaks. Will it start if you hold the choke closed ? Make sure the manifold and head bolts are tightened down.  Rule out the possibility of a head gasket leak.

 

Only other thing is it may need a valve job.


Edited by Dee, January 19, 2018 - 09:25 PM.

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#13 Jazz OFFLINE  

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Posted January 19, 2018 - 05:29 PM

having same issue with my ss16.. lately been giving it a squirt of gas and it fires right up. Monday gas would not do it so a sniff of "start dammit" fired it up. Don't like using that so I will have to find the problem.

 

so to update...Removed points and cleaned and filed. i could not find any info on how to set points on this twin onan. I am not familiar with these points and could not get a gap initially after removing and cleaning  points. So i winged it and put pressure on points to make a huge gap and tightened nut..then loosened nut with .025 feeler gauge in points and tightened nut. Tractor fired right up! It's likely been 30 years since I saw a set of points and I recall setting a screw to adjust points. This onan points set up is a somewhat a PIA considering location. But its done and starts right now! :dancingbanana:

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Edited by Jazz, January 21, 2018 - 03:07 PM.


#14 Jazz OFFLINE  

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Posted January 21, 2018 - 03:31 PM

Starts like it should

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#15 steve b OFFLINE  

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Posted January 22, 2018 - 09:56 AM

I have replaced the belt now. That was an interesting bit of working in tight spaces my hands don't fit in. I could not have got the job done without the ridiculously long pair of needle nose pliers I purchased at the Tractor Supply. I had to take the drive coupler completely apart to get the belt on / off.  I could not figure out how to get a couple of the shim washers back on ( they kept slipping out of alignment ). I finally used a dab of hot melt glue to hold them to the plastic disc. Then it was just a matter of blind aligning 3 things at the same time and tightening the bolts. It took 2.5 hours to do the job, which also included a trip to the auto parts store.  It did start right up after the belt replacement so that's good. The weather here is about 40 degrees warmer than it has been though. I guess we will see when the temps fall back down.

 

4 questions though. What is the plastic disc that connects the drive shaft to the motor called? Are these available anymore? Is the coil for the Briggs motor 300421 ( I think ) under  the shroud? Can you get to that without pulling the motor?

Thanks all.






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