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further into the 361


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#1 bazil.w.duke OFFLINE  

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Posted January 09, 2018 - 10:19 PM

dont know where or how far to take this other than to test end play on rods and crank and check torque on rod cap nuts then button it up

 

 


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#2 EricFromPa OFFLINE  

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Posted January 09, 2018 - 11:38 PM

Looks like a replacement block. All of the replacement blocks that I've seen were Grey in color.

 

Someone may have put the old fuel pump on it and the Fuel pump may have leaked fuel internally and cleaned the inside of the block. That could be why the fuel pump was missing. Gas in the engine tends to wear out Cam lobes really fast. The points lobe will wear down 1st. That's a common problem.

 

I'm in the process of going through a K321 that someone had replaced the fuel pump on. It was absolutely spotless inside. The Oil ring was completely shot and it has a knock. I bought a full rebuild kit for it and lightly honed the block,lapped the valves and installed the new rod,piston,rings,valves and valve springs but it Still has the same knock.  The only thing that I didn't pull out of it was the Cam. It has to be a worn Cam lobe or something other than the connecting rod.

 

The old connecting rod that I pulled out of it measured out to 1.500. Absolutely no wear on the original connecting rod.

 

If I had a garage I would have it torn completely apart again. To cold outside to be working in the little shed. I have another Cam and a set of lifters to put in it as soon as it warms up.

 

 

 

 

Carefully Check those Balance gears ASAP. If there is ANY looseness to them what so ever Pull them out and discard them. 

 

Check the small clip retainers very carefully for wear. If 1 of those gears get loose it will completely destroy the block. You'll have a large hole in the block big enough to stick your fist through. That's why all of the Kohler guys call them Grenade Gears. Pull the pin and BOOM. They ruin the block,crank,connecting rod and some times the cam when they let go.

 

My K321 Was definitely a replacement block. Original engine would of been a K321AQS and this one is a K321S. It's a factory grey block with grey tins.


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#3 bazil.w.duke OFFLINE  

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Posted January 09, 2018 - 11:57 PM

the fuel pump was on it.  everyting inside has a light coat of oil


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#4 classic ONLINE  

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Posted January 10, 2018 - 12:08 AM

At this point,I would remove the piston and rod, measure the rod and crank journal, and measure piston ring end gap. Check cam and crank end play, also. It's worth taking a little more time now to check it over good, rather than have issues not long after you fire it up. Chunks of metal in the pan are never a good sign. Looks like an aluminum colored oil slick in the oil in the pan, too.
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#5 bazil.w.duke OFFLINE  

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Posted January 10, 2018 - 12:12 AM

is this what you mean by slop in balance gear?   is it serviceable and are shafts available?

 

 



#6 bazil.w.duke OFFLINE  

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Posted January 10, 2018 - 12:13 AM

it looks like the manual states a very tight clearance



#7 classic ONLINE  

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Posted January 10, 2018 - 12:22 AM

Yes, the balance gears are very sloppy. How is your camshaft endplay? Don't let the cleanliness of this engine deceive you. Measuring everything is the only way to know what condition things are in. If that engine got gaswashed as I call it, your rod and crank journal may be galled up. Pull the rod cap and have a look.

Edited by classic, January 10, 2018 - 01:30 AM.

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#8 boyscout862 ONLINE  

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Posted January 10, 2018 - 01:36 AM

You really need to fully disassemble the engine. The particules in the oil pan and the loose grenade gears worry me. You are 1/2 way there, it would be a shame to put it together and have it blow in 100 hours. Before you really take it apart, I would plasti gage the rod bearing. I have used plasti gage on my engine bearings since 1970 and it has not let me down. Sometimes I've gotten incorrect micrometer measurements which could have led to doing the wrong operation but plasti gage as a second independant measurement showed what was true. They are also cheap. http://www.rockauto....6805128&jsn=333

Once you have it apart, clean and measure everything. There is an official Kohler inspection sheet that you can use to keep track of everything. Figure out where those particals came from and what caused it. Good Luck, Rick

Edited by boyscout862, January 10, 2018 - 01:50 AM.

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#9 1oldbuzz OFFLINE  

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Posted January 10, 2018 - 02:40 AM

Pull the balance gears

and throw them away

its piece of mind

its done all the time

it will runs just the same without them

did it on one of mine

didn't notice any difference

 


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#10 EricFromPa OFFLINE  

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Posted January 10, 2018 - 03:00 AM

Those balance gears are definitely shot. The metal in the pan is probably chunks of balance gear. The leading edge of the gears wear and chip off when the gears start to bind from slop in the bearings and shafts.  

 

Either remove those puppies and press new bearings in and replace the shafts and clip And shims and purchase the timing tool to time them when you go to reassemble Or just pop the clips and take them out all together.

 

You can remove the bottom one without pulling the crankshaft but not the top one. So your crank will have to come out anyway.

 

The engine will run perfectly fine without them. BUT you WILL notice that the engine will jump around more while it's running. If you have loose bolts or body panels on the tractor the rattling will drive you nuts. 

 

I removed them from a couple of my tractors. My Cub 149,129 and 127 all had them removed. The 127 did not rattle much but the 2 wide frames with the hinged hoods both rattled BAD untill I put strips of foam weather strip where the hood rested on the dash and lower grill section.

 

Plasti-guage is OK but it will not show you if the journal is out of round or U shaped. A good quality Micrometer and feeler gauge set will tell you everything you need to know about a Kohler.


Edited by EricFromPa, January 10, 2018 - 03:22 AM.

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#11 EricFromPa OFFLINE  

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Posted January 10, 2018 - 03:22 AM

it looks like the manual states a very tight clearance

 

Yes there should be very very little play in those gears. Recommended end play is .002-.010  And they should be Tight on the pins.  .002 Max wear limit on the Pins.

 

Yours are Way looser than that. That rocking is what causes the clips to catch on the face of the gear and throws the Clips off. Then Boom rattle rattle rattle dead Kohler.


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#12 LilysDad ONLINE  

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Posted January 10, 2018 - 07:59 AM

Not all K engines come with the gears. I have a genset K341 engine that never had them. They are not necessary for proper operation.


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#13 boyscout862 ONLINE  

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Posted January 10, 2018 - 08:18 AM

[Plasti-guage is OK but it will not show you if the journal is out of round or U shaped. A good quality Micrometer and feeler gauge set will tell you everything you need to know about a Kohler.
[/quote]

I use the plastigage in addition to the micrometers. It is a second check only but it can show up problems especially where there may be a burr interfering. Good Luck, Rick
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#14 MNGB ONLINE  

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Posted January 10, 2018 - 01:38 PM

Hi likewise I advise to remove the balance gears leave them out I have one of my K321's with out them and can't really tell the difference but if you want to reduce the vibs this is the way I'd go install the Kirk Engines CS balance kit here's a link to his products, I have 2 of my engines with the points saver kit which he now has redesigned and is call trandenser well worth installing in my opinion

http://www.kirkengines.com/


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#15 olcowhand ONLINE  

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Posted January 10, 2018 - 03:13 PM

Toss those balance gears!!!!   I always toss them when inside a Kohler.  If you don't, sooner or later a nice picture window will be knocked through your block.


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