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sunstrand charge pump check


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#16 Alc OFFLINE  

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Posted January 06, 2018 - 06:12 AM

Do you think cracking the line going the steering valve while cranking the engine would help purge the air and help prime the charge pump ?



#17 BOLENSBOY60 OFFLINE  

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Posted January 06, 2018 - 07:37 AM

I will give that a try this morning- I am thinking it must be air lock as I went from acceptable charge pressure to zero-



#18 drbish ONLINE  

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Posted January 06, 2018 - 10:18 AM

Found this on simple tractors,Might help

sun1.jpg

sun2.jpg

A" 1/8 NPT Allen Hd pipe plug. This testing port is for the charge pump, and should show an operating range of approx 50 PSI at idle, to 180 PSI at wide open throttle.

"B" 1/8 NPT Allen Hd pipe plug.This testing port is where implement pressure can be measured @ 630-780 PSI) WOT with full extension of the implement.

"C" Charge relief valve. Where you add or remove shims to get the desired pressure per above (A).

"D" Implement Relief Valve. Where you add or remove shims to get the desired pressure per above (B).

"E" Implement supply port. Pressurized fluid out .

"F" Implement return port. Return fluid.

"G" Test gauge 0 - 1000 psi and hose ass'y, with snubber or dampening valve and brass fitting to transition to 1/8" NPT.
The snubber is used to dampen gauge flucuation that is common in hydraulics. Now when testing Brett's machine there was no gauge "bouncing".

Pressures are adjusted with shims in the charge relief valves shown. Adding shims increases pressure, removal lowers pressure.
These shims vary in thickness from 1/32" or less to nearly 1/16". Very small differences can create very different pressures.
Pressure on the supply port is measured when the implement is at its extents and held in place (fully raised or lowered and held there, or full left or right on the steering and held there), at wide open throttle.
All adjustments or testing must be done in a clean environment.
Make sure all ports or valves and surrounding areas are free of any and all dirt, dust or other contaminants before removal or replacement. 
The Sundstrand 15 is capable of a maximum operating pressure of 3000 PSI, therefore all due caution, PPE, etc. should be observed when performing any adjusting or testing, as personal injury and / or damage to equipment could occur if excess pressures are created.

https://simpletracto...e-checking-r16/

 


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#19 KennyP ONLINE  

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Posted January 06, 2018 - 11:02 AM

Found this on simple tractors,Might help

attachicon.gifsun1.jpg

attachicon.gifsun2.jpg

A" 1/8 NPT Allen Hd pipe plug. This testing port is for the charge pump, and should show an operating range of approx 50 PSI at idle, to 180 PSI at wide open throttle.

"B" 1/8 NPT Allen Hd pipe plug.This testing port is where implement pressure can be measured @ 630-780 PSI) WOT with full extension of the implement.

"C" Charge relief valve. Where you add or remove shims to get the desired pressure per above (A).

"D" Implement Relief Valve. Where you add or remove shims to get the desired pressure per above (B).

"E" Implement supply port. Pressurized fluid out .

"F" Implement return port. Return fluid.

"G" Test gauge 0 - 1000 psi and hose ass'y, with snubber or dampening valve and brass fitting to transition to 1/8" NPT.
The snubber is used to dampen gauge flucuation that is common in hydraulics. Now when testing Brett's machine there was no gauge "bouncing".

Pressures are adjusted with shims in the charge relief valves shown. Adding shims increases pressure, removal lowers pressure.
These shims vary in thickness from 1/32" or less to nearly 1/16". Very small differences can create very different pressures.
Pressure on the supply port is measured when the implement is at its extents and held in place (fully raised or lowered and held there, or full left or right on the steering and held there), at wide open throttle.
All adjustments or testing must be done in a clean environment.
Make sure all ports or valves and surrounding areas are free of any and all dirt, dust or other contaminants before removal or replacement. 
The Sundstrand 15 is capable of a maximum operating pressure of 3000 PSI, therefore all due caution, PPE, etc. should be observed when performing any adjusting or testing, as personal injury and / or damage to equipment could occur if excess pressures are created.

https://simpletracto...e-checking-r16/

That's some good info! Needs saved so it can be found again.


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#20 BOLENSBOY60 OFFLINE  

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Posted January 06, 2018 - 01:53 PM

excellent info thank-you- I am learning more each day with you kind fellas- yes- similar to mine except I have the inline type- I refilled the filter and whirled it over without plugs several times- removed the charge and implement relief valves- reassembled and I got my charge pressure back about 120 psi at wide open - so I am back to square one at least- when I dead head the lift cylinder the charge pressure goes to about 140 psi then drops back to 120 while I hold the control valve - I added shims to the implement valve- no increase in pressure - I wonder if a gerotor is scratched it would allow all this fluid to escape before it could activate the implement relief


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#21 BOLENSBOY60 OFFLINE  

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Posted January 07, 2018 - 10:02 AM

well these are the valves removed- the one on the left is the old implement relief- middle one is the new set- and the right hand side is the charge relief valve set- you can see the shims that were supplied with the new implement valve set- between the old and new implement valves- the new on has a much smaller "land" at the tip the charge relief has a much softer spring also

Attached Thumbnails

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#22 Corvairguy ONLINE  

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Posted January 10, 2018 - 12:48 AM

"...maybe today I will take the hoses off the lift cylinder and connect together and just to see thanks for you input"

 

Wouldn't you want to disconnect the hoses and cap them?  I would think hooking the hoses together would simply emulate bad seals in the cylinder. Just my 2-cents. :watch_over_fence:



#23 BOLENSBOY60 OFFLINE  

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Posted January 10, 2018 - 06:30 AM

update- on advice from members here I re-tested the hydro by plugging the auxiliary ports completely removing the spark plugs a whirling the engine over- my charge pressure barely went to 20 psi - so- it appears I have a faulty charge pump- even though with the test gauge I get good pressure of 120 psi - I will need to remove and inspect/repair and will post pictures in case someone else has this problem thank all you guys for your input-

Attached Thumbnails

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#24 bhts OFFLINE  

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Posted January 10, 2018 - 12:03 PM

Something I noticed is your checking the pressure on the wrong side of the pump per the manual. Also the new valve looks like it is longer then the old one which could make it act like it's stuck. I would change the gauge to the other side and put the old valve back in reconnect all lines and test the system. Next start the tractor and at full throttle and the hydraulic cylinder in the lift postion once it travels to full lift and bottoms out then you should get a reading somewhere between 500 - 800 psi 


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#25 BOLENSBOY60 OFFLINE  

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Posted January 10, 2018 - 07:51 PM

thanks for your thoughts on my issue- I think I did have that in the other side too- this is a tough one because I had no history with the tractor and after I had the engine work done and installed- it drove really nice- but my problem showed up when the power steering did not operate- it would move the cylinder in and out but slow and no power- if the tractor would not have had power steering on it I would have never discovered the problem- based on the advice I got from tudor and hydronerd- I will be disassembling the charge pump

Attached Thumbnails

  • SDC13930.JPG


#26 BOLENSBOY60 OFFLINE  

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Posted January 11, 2018 - 11:28 AM

thanks to the input from forum members especially hydronerd and tudor- my problem was isolated to the charge pump- I discovered my gerotor was scratched up. I happened to replace a input shaft a few years ago and had the old gerotor- because the new style input shaft drives the pump with a spline- no drive pin. it was not too bad as I had the engine removed before and cleaned up the crank so it slid up fairly easy.

Attached Thumbnails

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  • SDC13935.JPG
  • SDC13936.JPG
  • SDC13937.JPG
  • SDC13939.JPG

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#27 BOLENSBOY60 OFFLINE  

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Posted January 12, 2018 - 05:24 AM

my lift cylinder and power steering are functioning good now- only think I cannot figure is why now I am getting 300 psi charge pressure? this is about half throttle -no load on hydraulics- maybe remove a little fluid?- I am afraid I my blow out a seal?


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