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#1 dodge trucker ONLINE  

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Posted December 23, 2017 - 07:13 AM

When I bought the tractor that I plan to put a snow blower on, the past owner included a pair of brand new Snow Hog tires in the same size as the original front tires on the tractor. He handed them to me "loose", not on rims.   I had to replace the fronts anyway because the originals were dry rotted and would not hold air. I had these Snow Hogs so "why not" put them on, right? 

Problem as I see it is that they are only  2 ply. not alot of weight capacity. The 4 ply Turf Savers that I bought for my other (same kind of) tractor and same size have nearly 2x the weight capacity. I like the idea of these Snow Hogs on a snow removal tractor, even on the non drive wheels,  but was wondering; If I add a tube to them, would that help the weight capacity?   I mean that would kind of be like adding another ply  Not really I know, cuz it's not within the walls of the tires themselves.... but a tube would be added material so it would be another layer so to speak... 


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#2 MiCarl ONLINE  

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Posted December 23, 2017 - 07:50 AM

The sidewall of the tire carries the load.  The air simply keeps it from folding under load.

 

Notice how the sidewalls of the tires don't collapse without air if there is no extra weight on the tire?  Now try the same with a tube - it cannot even support its own weight.

 

Not going to get you there.


Edited by MiCarl, December 23, 2017 - 07:52 AM.

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#3 chieffan ONLINE  

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Posted December 23, 2017 - 07:54 AM

How does the weight capacity compare between the two tires?  If the weight capacity is adequate I would not worry about it.  Lot if not most car tires are only 2 ply side wall tires.


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#4 dodge trucker ONLINE  

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Posted December 23, 2017 - 08:16 AM

The 2 plys are something like 330 lbs (a piece I think) where the 4 plys are like double.
Yeah I know that a tube by itself can't hold much by itself, but as when you are building and add another layer of plywood together they are stronger than either layer by it's respective self, I was thinking the same thing in this case.
The 2 ply might carry the load sitting still with the blower in the air but that weight is way out ahead of the axle so that compounds the amount of weight. And shock loads, like when I get to where the driveway meets the road being uneven, things like that was why I was asking
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#5 Gtractor ONLINE  

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Posted December 23, 2017 - 08:27 AM

2 ply will work fine

 

 

The only difference is a few years down the road when the tires start to weather-crack,  they'll stop holding air sooner than the 4 ply would have.   I believe I would go ahead and install tubes just for that reason. [that's if you plan on keeping it 4+ years]

The weight rating on tires is a "safety margin" much like the bridges marked "3 ton limit" that I regularly drive over with 6-10 tons.


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#6 boyscout862 ONLINE  

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Posted December 23, 2017 - 08:51 AM

Can you just swap the tires with the machine that has the better tires. It is always a shame when good tires are overloaded to failure. Especially when you need them. Good Luck, Rick
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#7 boyscout862 ONLINE  

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Posted December 23, 2017 - 08:57 AM

2 ply will work fine
 
 
The only difference is a few years down the road when the tires start to weather-crack,  they'll stop holding air sooner than the 4 ply would have.   I believe I would go ahead and install tubes just for that reason. [that's if you plan on keeping it 4+ years]
The weight rating on tires is a "safety margin" much like the bridges marked "3 ton limit" that I regularly drive over with 6-10 tons.

That is partly a safety margin and partly an evaluation that anything over 3 tons does alot of damage to the bridge. I hate when trucks intentionally overload bridges because in 1985 we had a bridge rated 10 tons get crossed by a concrete truck(40 tons). He made it over and got away. But, he had broken the bridges' back. A couple of minutes later the bridge collapsed just as a compact car with a family of four was about to cross it. The truck driver almost murdered that family of four.

Do not overload bridges. You might end up killing someone. Good Luck, Rick
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#8 Bob E ONLINE  

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Posted December 23, 2017 - 09:47 AM

I would think 660 # would be enough. What kind of tractor are we talking about?


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#9 Cat385B OFFLINE  

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Posted December 23, 2017 - 01:59 PM

I would think 660 # would be enough. What kind of tractor are we talking about?


Me thinks one of these:

IMG_1174.JPG
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#10 secondtry OFFLINE  

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Posted December 23, 2017 - 04:27 PM

The ply of a tire refers to the cord/belt/reinforcement built in to the tire. the tube has no reinforcement built into it at all and will do nothing to provide more capacity. the tube is designed to seal the air into the tire. With out the support of the tire its weight carrying capacity is insignificant. Put the tube around the wheel, air it up and push down on the wheel to find the weight carrying capacity of the tube. Don


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#11 dodge trucker ONLINE  

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Posted December 23, 2017 - 11:51 PM

The ply of a tire refers to the cord/belt/reinforcement built in to the tire. the tube has no reinforcement built into it at all and will do nothing to provide more capacity. the tube is designed to seal the air into the tire. With out the support of the tire its weight carrying capacity is insignificant. Put the tube around the wheel, air it up and push down on the wheel to find the weight carrying capacity of the tube. Don

yeah I understand about the reinforcement "built in".... but the tube ADDED TO the tire wouldn't count for another ply's worth... again, in combination with it?

and yeah my machine is like the one that Cat showed.



#12 dodge trucker ONLINE  

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Posted December 23, 2017 - 11:57 PM

Can you just swap the tires with the machine that has the better tires. It is always a shame when good tires are overloaded to failure. Especially when you need them. Good Luck, Rick


Better in this case has a couple of meanings.... these Snow Hogs are brand new but a couple of years old now and are better in the sense of tread pattern for the job at hand.
I just got a new pair of Carlisle Turf Savers (same tread as the originals from the machine) via EPay and I have a spare set of wheels that is better because of weight capacity. These are 4 ply. so they are each better than the other but for different reasons.
I looked at the back tires, Carlisle V bar tread, don't have a model name on them (like Tru Power, etc) but I now see that those are only 2 ply as well.... these tires were brand new and just recently mounted to the tractor just before I got it.

Edited by dodge trucker, December 24, 2017 - 10:24 AM.


#13 MiCarl ONLINE  

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Posted December 24, 2017 - 08:14 AM

yeah I understand about the reinforcement "built in".... but the tube ADDED TO the tire wouldn't count for another ply's worth... again, in combination with it?

and yeah my machine is like the one that Cat showed.

 

Back to your plywood example:

 

When you add another ply to a sheet of plywood it gets bonded to the rest so it cannot move relative to its neighbor.  If the joint could move it would add very little strength to the assembly.

 

Another thing that makes plywood work is wood is pretty inelastic - it won't stretch.  The sidewall in your tire is also pretty inelastic, it uses a stiff rubber and has inelastic cords bonded into it.

 

The rubber in tubes is very elastic.  It readily stretches and changes shape.  So even if it was bonded to the tire it wouldn't help much.

 

So by comparison adding a tube to a tire is similar to putting a throw rug on your plywood floor.  It won't add much strength.


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#14 dodge trucker ONLINE  

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Posted December 24, 2017 - 10:27 AM

Ok then I guess I'll put the tubes into the cracked original front tires that are on the tractor now so I don't have to air them up every other day, I was saving the new turf masters for a pair of wheels that I have here that I am gonna blast and paint.




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