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#1 jdcrawler ONLINE  

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Posted December 22, 2017 - 09:02 PM

While looking at photos of old steam locomotives on the internet, I came across this photo of a small engine with a 2-4-4 wheel arrangement and I decided build a 2-4-4 engine for my collection.

I searched for some time trying to find a photo of the engineers side but these two pfotos were all that I could find.

SAM_1631_zpsqcw5ydmd.jpg

SAM_1632_zpssl2i7qes.jpg


This is going to be a brass model so I scrounged thru my parts to see what I had to work with.
I found a working 0-4-0 chassis, two parts for a cab, a boiler and foot boards and a truck for the rear that looks similar to the photo.

SAM_1635_zpsozf4qqci.jpg


This chassis is from a kit that was made back in the late 40's or early 50's and it used a large open frame electric motor that mounted on the angled plate on the rear.
I want to use a newer ' can motor ' so I removed the angled mounting plate and made up a square plate to mount the can motor with.

SAM_1636_zpsdclcilh2.jpg


The new motor is mounted on the chassis and I'm test running it.

SAM_1637_zpsq6ygv8uq.jpg


I found a piece of cast brass that will work well for extending the back of the chassis frame.
The two sides of this piece are different heights and they are tapered from one end to the other.
The piece is clamped in the vice and I'm milling the two sides so they will be even.

SAM_1639_zpsenyvzxnx.jpg


This piece is then soldered onto the back of the chassis.

SAM_1641_zpsemklas8j.jpg


The underside of the rear frame section has two half round areas machined out of it for clearance for the wheels on the rear truck.

SAM_1640_zpsospfxfog.jpg


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#2 KennyP ONLINE  

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Posted December 23, 2017 - 04:11 AM

This will be fun to watch!


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#3 chieffan OFFLINE  

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Posted December 23, 2017 - 08:00 AM

Looks like you have a good project going there.  Some of those old open frame motors still run good but drew a lot of amps and not good slow speed control.  Kind of like the older Lionel - dead still or 90 mph.


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#4 jdcrawler ONLINE  

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Posted December 23, 2017 - 09:01 AM

 Some of those old open frame motors still run good but drew a lot of amps and not good slow speed control.  Kind of like the older Lionel - dead still or 90 mph.

 

I have managed to end up with several of the older open frame electric motors over the years  as I've collected parts for my trains and I used them in the locomotives when I first started building them.

Now I use the newer can motors whenever possibly and I have replaced some of the motors in some of the earlier models that I built.

Eventually I hope to replace all of them with the can motors.


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#5 Sawdust OFFLINE  

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Posted December 23, 2017 - 10:34 AM

Another exciting project to follow. Not to mention the detail that's seen but I appreciate the details from day one that most don't see. Years ago when I first got started in HO scale I bought an estate lot of Rivarossi steam engines made in Italy. I love these things & the fact that most looked new I couldn't resist. Like you mentioned about the old motors these things sit there grunting until a lot of throttle. I pretty much just use these for show on my layout. I'm way behind on your 2-8-8-2 project. I have to admit I've been avoiding it because it's over inspiring me to get my stuff back out. Lol

Edited by Sawdust, December 23, 2017 - 10:36 AM.

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#6 TomLGT195 OFFLINE  

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Posted December 23, 2017 - 03:36 PM

Oh boy another locomotive build. I definitely following this one.
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#7 jdcrawler ONLINE  

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Posted December 23, 2017 - 10:45 PM

The four wheel rear truck I'm using is for a regular railroad car and it normally is mounted by a single screw in the center of the truck.
Unlike real railroad track that has long sweeping radius curves, model railroad track has short radius curved track and the rear of this chassis is going to swing out past the track on these tight curves so the rear truck can't be mounted like it normally would.

SAM_1642_zps0gwzieqr.jpg


The rear truck now has a mount that is like a trailer hitch that pivots where it is mounted to the truck and also where it will mount to the chassis.
The chassis is shown upside down and the rear truck will mount with a shoulder bolt to the center hole in the frame behind the drive wheels.
I also fastened a piece of lead to the rear truck to give it more weight and make it track better so it won't jump the track when the engine is backing up.

SAM_1643_zpsef7kc2za.jpg


Looking thru my parts, I see that I only have three front trucks that have only two wheels and they are all for larger locomotives than this so I'm going to have to build the two wheel front truck.

Starting with a piece of 3/8 hex shape brass, it is machined to the correct length on the lathe and then a hole is drilled thru it for the axle shaft.

SAM_1644_zps21bbjffv.jpg


Then a piece of ' T ' shape brass is soldered to the hex brass.

SAM_1645_zpsuouxgayz.jpg


Here are the finished parts for the front truck.
The small round piece of brass next to the screw will thread onto the screw to form a shoulder bolt for mounting the truck on the chassis.
The small hole in the center of the hex brass piece is so I can oil the axle shaft after it is all put together.

I'm using the large piece of brass so it will have some weight to help the front truck track properly.
Lionel and other trains that run on three rail track have oversize wheel flanges to keep them on the track but these trains run on two rail track and their wheel flanges are to scale size and don't stick out past the wheel surface very far so they can derail easily if they aren't weighted down.

SAM_1646_zpstbr86gso.jpg


This is how the two wheel front truck looks all put together.

SAM_1647_zpspihhxc5o.jpg


Here is the chassis with the front and rear trucks mounted and sitting on a straight track.

SAM_1649_zpsymdsro1n.jpg


And the chassis on the curved track.

SAM_1648_zpsawouylvm.jpg


The piece of curved track in these photos is Atlas track with the standard 3-foot radius and the regular Atlas switches also have this radius curve.
Obviously, the big articulated locomotives like the 2-8-8-2 that I just built will not run on a tight radius track like this.

When I get around to building my layout, it will have a track running all around the far outside of the room that will have 11-foot radius curves so I can safely run the big articulated locomotives.
In the corners of the room, I'll be able to lay track with these tighter curves on the outside of this main track and I can run the smaller locomotives on that track while the big locomotives are running on the other track.
I will also have a peninsula sticking out into the center area of the room and it will also have the track with the tighter curves.


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#8 jdcrawler ONLINE  

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Posted December 24, 2017 - 08:46 AM

This chassis design is bothering me and I even dreamed about it in my sleep last night.
Obviously I can't put a coupler on the back of this engine because the frame swings out past the the track on the curves.

SAM_1642_zps0gwzieqr.jpg



You can buy locomotive models with this 2-4-4 wheel arrangement and I'm sure that the rear frame on those models doesn't swing way out past the track in the curves.
So ... what are they doing with their model design that is different from what I'm doing ?

The only thing that I can think of is that they don't have flanges on the rear drive wheels.
Several manufacturers of model trains don't put flanges on the two sets of inside wheels on engines with eight drive wheels so that these engines can go around the tight curves.
They have flanges on just the front and rear drive wheels to keep it on the track and the two sets of drive wheels in-between them can swing out past the track in the curves.

Here is a photo of how the chassis would ride on the track if I took the flanges off the rear drive wheels and then mounted the rear truck from it's center mounting hole like it would be on a box car.
As you can see, the rear drive wheels are off the rails and the rear part of the frame stays inside the rails.

There wouldn't be any problem with having a coupler mounted there to pull the railroad cars behind it.

SAM_1650_zps6ecjdtnk.jpg


Edited by jdcrawler, December 24, 2017 - 08:49 AM.

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#9 jdcrawler ONLINE  

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Posted December 24, 2017 - 04:37 PM

Okay ... I have made the modifications to the chassis so the rear of the frame will stay inside the rails now.

The flanges are removed from the two rear drive wheels and , as you can see, all four drive wheels are still on the rails on the straight track.

SAM_1651_zpshxmj1mzm.jpg


As this goes around a tight curve, the chassis is supported by the front two drive wheels and the rear truck and you can see that the two rear drive wheels have slipped completely off the rails.

SAM_1652_zpsdwzkcfcn.jpg


Viewed from above, you can see that the rear of the frame now stays in-between the rails so there won't be any problem with pulling some railroad cars.

SAM_1653_zps6r77ootu.jpg

 

Traction is going to be an issue when only the front drive wheels are in contact with the track and I'm hoping that adding weight right over these front drive wheels will help with that.
This small electric motor will only handle so much weight so adding extra weight to the locomotive will have an effect on how many cars I can pull behind it.
In real life, this type of locomotive was only used for switching operations and for limited local service and they only pulled a few cars at a time anyway.

Another problem is that the rear drive wheels will not be picking up electrical current in the curves.
I plan on adding electrical pickups to all four of the wheels on the rear truck to compensate for that.


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#10 jdcrawler ONLINE  

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Posted December 26, 2017 - 11:56 AM

The photo shows that this locomotive has a step pilot on both the front and the back and in my supply of pilots, I found two that match.

The one on the left is upside down so you can see the two ' bumps ' at the top on the back from where the brass was injected into the mold.
There are two couplers and two shoulder screws for mounting the couplers.
The rear coupler is longer than the front coupler so it can swing from side to side more because the rear end of the frame swings out on the curves more than the front.

SAM_1654_zpsqoapailg.jpg


I clamped each pilot in the vice and milled off the two bumps on the back.

SAM_1655_zps2hjhaisb.jpg


The mounting bracket if formed from a piece of sheet brass and soldered to the back of the pilot.
one of the shoulder bolts is solder in the coupler pocket so I can mount the coupler and puy a washer and nut on it to hold the coupler in place.

SAM_1658_zpsrylzqdrp.jpg


The pilot is then fastened to the back ot the frame with two flathead screws.
The sheet metal for the tender will fit down onto the top of the pilot and cover these screws.

SAM_1661_zpsbi0h0g9a.jpg


When I first started building trains, I made up a block of wood that fits on the track and has a coupler mounted on it.
This is the gauge that I use to get all of the couplers at the same height.

SAM_1659_zpstofjyqvj.jpg


The front pilot has a piece of sheet brass soldered to it also and it is then soldered onto the top of the two front frame rails.

SAM_1664_zpssteft4gs.jpg


If you look closely, you can see the short piece of brass that I hed to add the the front frame rails to extend them out to the back of the front pilot.

SAM_1660_zpsky1hhvi8.jpg


Here is how the chassis looks so far.

SAM_1662_zpskp70otqx.jpg


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#11 jdcrawler ONLINE  

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Posted December 29, 2017 - 11:03 AM

The boiler and foot boards that I'm using for this locomotive are from a model kit of an 0-4-0 switch engine that was made by Thomas Industries back in the late 40's and early 50's.

1-a_zpsupq1pmsp.jpg


The company produced inexpensive model kits that were put together with screws and didn't require any soldering.
They had brass frames pieces, boiler and foot plates and a cast brass steam chest.
The rest of the parts were cast pot-metal and aluminum.
I have a few parts for these Thomas 0-4-0 engines but I don't have any of the wheels or drive mechanisms.

SAM_1689_zpsh1ejzanx.jpg


Here is the boiler and foot boards that I'm using.
The foot plate was fastened to the underside of the boiler with two screws and small square nuts that gripped the inside of the boiler.

SAM_1665_zpskqexw0pp.jpg


The foot boards are fastened to the underside of the boiler with the two screws and special nuts and I also soldered the cross braces to the underside of the boiler.
Both parts were cleaned up before I did any soldering on them.

SAM_1666_zpskqs0wcqh.jpg


The stanchions for the handrail on the sides of the boiler are threaded and are fastened on with small nuts on the inside of the boiler so I put them on before I fastened the foot boards on.

SAM_1667_zpsgcrdnulr.jpg


A piece of brass is soldered into the bottom of the boiler and is drilled and tapped for the screw that holds the boiler onto the chassis.

SAM_1668_zpsllmuqpgf.jpg


The boiler is now fastened in place.

SAM_1669_zpse9krrazg.jpg


I'm using a brass smoke box front and it has four tabs on the back of it to center it in the front of the boiler.

SAM_1670_zpsahcm5rhr.jpg


However, this front is made for a cast boiler so the tabs are not out far enough to hold it in this thin sheet metal boiler.  
I turned down a piece of scrap brass so it fits inside the boiler and than machined it so the boiler front piece fits into it.

SAM_1671_zpse5rxlond.jpg

SAM_1672_zpsckplbrlv.jpg


The machined brass ring is soldered onto the back of the boiler front and it now fits snugly into the front of the boiler.

SAM_1674_zpspjrsqyjb.jpg

SAM_1673_zpsaijsoozy.jpg


A piece of flat brass was machined to fit on the back of the boiler and soldered in place.

SAM_1675_zps66lxopx9.jpg


Then another piece of brass sheet was cut to size for the floor and this was soldered onto the back of the boiler and made so it is fastened to the back of the chassis with a screw.

SAM_1676_zpscake60od.jpg


The cab that I'm using has a nice window visor on the fireman's side that is a brass casting but it is missing this visor on the engineers side.

SAM_1677_zpss0120g6o.jpg

SAM_1678_zpsz9ac1lxy.jpg


To make another visor, I start by putting ' rivets ' along the edge of a small strip of brass to match the rivets on the cast visor.

SAM_1679_zpsc7oeuksq.jpg


The strip is cut to size and a notch is cut on either side of these rivets.

SAM_1680_zpsqq76cso2.jpg


The rivet area of the visor is bent up so the visor will angle out when it is fastened to the cab.

SAM_1681_zpsnxn0inlg.jpg


The two ends are bent down and trimmed off to form the completed visor.

SAM_1682_zps5zgv962v.jpg


This is then soldered to the side of the cab over the engineers window.

SAM_1683_zpsc648cxnu.jpg


The piece for the back of the cab is then soldered in place.

SAM_1684_zpsr8xwucpm.jpg


I don't have any pieces for the front of the cab that will fit this small boiler so I'm going to have to make one.
The shape of the cab is cut from a sheet of brass and I scribed lines for where the two windows should be and two holes are drilled into each window area.

SAM_1685_zpsj0hchpjy.jpg


The two windows are then milled out using a 3/32 diameter endmill and the center is cut out out to fit around the boiler.
I scribed lines in the front piece for where the door is in the front on each side of the cab.

SAM_1686_zps0nbajxs8.jpg


This front piece is soldered onto the cab and the cab is then soldered onto the boiler and floor plate.

SAM_1687_zpskiqme2ew.jpg

SAM_1688_zpsnqvqijuk.jpg


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#12 KennyP ONLINE  

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Posted December 29, 2017 - 12:08 PM

I sent you a PM, Ray.


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#13 TomLGT195 OFFLINE  

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Posted December 30, 2017 - 09:09 AM

Amazing craftsmanship. Takes a lot of patience to work with tiny parts and that amount of precision. 


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#14 jdcrawler ONLINE  

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Posted January 01, 2018 - 12:53 PM

The rear panel for the cab is cut from a sheet of brass and I'm putting the rivets along the edge of one of the sides.

SAM_1690_zpsdmgeeak2.jpg


Cutting the windows out on the mill.

SAM_1691_zpsywnkc3ta.jpg


Then I bend up the two ends to form the sides of the panel.

SAM_1692_zpslt9lp9n2.jpg


The rear side of the cab roof is at an angle so I put it on the mill and cut this area out so the opening will be squared off at the top.

SAM_1693_zpsbtqbfh9x.jpg


The rear panel is then soldered in place.

SAM_1694_zps5ft0qqhw.jpg


Next is to cut out a strip of brass to form the sides of the tender.
I also cut out a piece for the top of the tender.

SAM_1695_zps9c4muc04.jpg


After the rivets are all put in, the front ends that fit up against the back of the cab are bent up and then the two back corners are formed around a round piece of brass rod.

SAM_1696_zpshubpjgeq.jpg


The tender is being soldered to the floor plate and also to the back of the cab.

SAM_1697_zps57njsq38.jpg


The top of the tender is fit into place.
This part of the tender holds the water.

SAM_1698_zps8ne8fkc5.jpg


This locomotive is fired by oil instead of coal so I'm now machining a block of brass that will be the oil bunker that sits on top of the tender.

SAM_1699_zpsqxuzashl.jpg


Once the block is all squared up, the edges are then rounded off with a radius cutter.

SAM_1700_zpsoxbltqwl.jpg


The finished block is fastened to the top panel of the tender with small machine screws.

SAM_1702_zpsitnawen8.jpg


I have a nice cast brass water access hatch for putting on top of the lower part of the tender but I don't have a oil fill hatch for the top of the oil bunker.
So I turned down a piece of brass rod and the two holes are drilled into the top of it for mounting the lift handle.

SAM_1703_zpsb5ryynlp.jpg


Here is the finished oil fill hatch with a hinge on one side and a latch on the other side under the lift handle.

SAM_1706_zpsa27j5tpk.jpg


The two hatches are mounted in place and the top of the panel is fastened down to the tender.

SAM_1705_zpso6kmlbbj.jpg


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#15 TomLGT195 OFFLINE  

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Posted January 02, 2018 - 04:51 PM

Amazing details.


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