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5 Magnet 3 Amp charging circuit - Kohler

k361 kohler

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#1 WpgJetFan OFFLINE  

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Posted December 05, 2017 - 01:45 PM

Good day,

Pulled apart a K361 going into a 220 frame... the charging circuit is a 3 amp circuit based on the windings I pulled and the flywheel had only 5 magnets - thought that made it unservicable.. but read in the K361 manual that a 5 magnet wheel is available with this circuit.  Confused...

Anyone know much about this???

Prefer the 15amp for sure but if servicable - I'd look at keeping for parts or selling as a set for someone rebuilding a toy with this particular set up.

Let me know.   Brian  wpgjetfan



#2 WpgJetFan OFFLINE  

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Posted December 05, 2017 - 01:47 PM

http://gardentractor...20-third-life/#

 

Here is the flywheel pic - looks like magnet completely gone... but suspect it was never there in this application - a pic of the charge windings are in the same thread...  Brian  wpgjetfan



#3 EricFromPa ONLINE  

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Posted December 06, 2017 - 01:18 AM

It's missing a magnet. Got another flywheel laying around with a donor magnet in it? JB Weld works good. Not the JB Quick you want the 24 hour cure type.  

 

Change the stator to a full 15/20 amp 2 wire stator and hook the other wire to the 2nd AC input terminal on the regulator.

 

Magnet orientation is easy to figure out.  Someone was definitely in under the flywheel before. See the white paint marks on the magnets? Those are normally not on there. 

 

Here watch this video. It will show you how to orient and re-attach the magnets. I've done a couple like this with the big paper clips. Got a box of 12 for $4 up at Dollar General.  Just make sure you get the Large ones. The medium sized clips are to small.

 

 

That guy is a goof lol.    


Edited by EricFromPa, December 06, 2017 - 01:22 AM.


#4 KennyP ONLINE  

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Posted December 06, 2017 - 07:45 AM

It's missing a magnet. Got another flywheel laying around with a donor magnet in it? JB Weld works good. Not the JB Quick you want the 24 hour cure type.  

 

Change the stator to a full 15/20 amp 2 wire stator and hook the other wire to the 2nd AC input terminal on the regulator.

 

Magnet orientation is easy to figure out.  Someone was definitely in under the flywheel before. See the white paint marks on the magnets? Those are normally not on there. 

 

Here watch this video. It will show you how to orient and re-attach the magnets. I've done a couple like this with the big paper clips. Got a box of 12 for $4 up at Dollar General.  Just make sure you get the Large ones. The medium sized clips are to small.

 

 

That guy is a goof lol.    

How would you suggest getting the magnet out of the donor flywheel? I have a 16 HP flywheel I could use the magnets out of for a 25 horse!



#5 WpgJetFan OFFLINE  

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Posted December 06, 2017 - 10:41 AM

I've seen the video but I don't think there is a magnet missing - it is right out of the service manual for the K361 that there is a 5 magnet flywheel... just asking if anyone else has seen this - 3 amp would just be enough to keep a battery charged... no lights, no nothing else, but I did note that the rectifier was for a 15 amp circuit (I have installed a 15 amp winding for sure!).

No idea where to get magnets but adding the 6th magnet would make the most sense if the wheel was balanced for six. Not such a great idea if balanced for the 5...!

But no damage to windings to indicate a magnet let loose and no fragments of a magnet that let loose were found.  I'm have convinced this a 5 a magnet flywheel.

I'll do some more research.  Keep adding to the conversation!  Brian  wpgjetfan



#6 WpgJetFan OFFLINE  

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Posted December 06, 2017 - 11:14 AM

Didn't even know he had this page on his site.  Completely explains the windings - but not the 5 or 6 magnet issue:

http://gardentractor...om/electric.htm

Direct quote and copy from his website below - really good explanation on what charging system is what - with 3amp - what I have - no regulator required and does have a lighting circuit...  Brian Miller - a great resource.   Brian  wpgjetfan

 

The Alternator (Stator) Charging Systems -

Kohler used six different models of stators on their engines. They are rated at 1.25 amp, which is used only to charge the battery; 3 amp, which is used to charge the battery and supply power for lights and/or an electric PTO clutch; and the 10, 15, 25 and 30 amp stators, which are used to charge the battery and power heavier electrical loads.

stators.gifThe low-output stators (1.25 and 3 amp) require a semiconductor rectifier diode to convert the electrical Alternating Current (AC) to Direct Current (DC) only to recharge the battery. Lights and electric PTO clutches don't require direct current, so they can operate without a diode. And the reason the 1.25 and 3 amp stators don't require a voltage rectifier/regulator is because, for normal use, an average engine don't run long enough for these stators to over-charge the battery, or burn out the lights and/or an electric PTO clutch.

But the high-output stators (10, 15, 25, 30 amp or more), rather it's a charging stator under the flywheel on a small engine or belt-driven automotive-type alternator, require an electronic "rectifier/regulator" to convert the AC to DC (direct current) and to regulate the amount of charge into the battery and limit the amount of voltage throughout the entire electrical system while powering electrical accessories at the same time. The faster the engine runs, the more voltage and amperage the stator produces.

Although very reliable, weather-proof and virtually maintenance-free, this system produces an adequate charge at low idle speeds.

This system is the standard of today's charging systems used on virtually all small engines, motorcycles, snowmobiles, automotive engines, heavy equipment machinery, etc.

And unlike the belt-driven automotive-type alternator, an alternator under the flywheel is self-energizing. It will produce electricity when the flywheel is spun fast enough.



#7 olcowhand ONLINE  

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Posted December 06, 2017 - 03:37 PM

I've never seen a 5 magnet flywheel.  Can't understand how it could work right, as there would be 2 magnets of the same pole orientation in a row, and to charge correctly the pole orientation must alternate???  I'd just use a K341 flywheel and a 15 amp stator assembly.


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#8 EricFromPa ONLINE  

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Posted December 06, 2017 - 04:25 PM

How would you suggest getting the magnet out of the donor flywheel? I have a 16 HP flywheel I could use the magnets out of for a 25 horse!

 

 

I dropped a M16 flywheel on my neighbors garage floor and a couple of the magnets popped loose. I used those magnets to replace 2 that had broken in a CH23 23hp kohler command twin cylinder. Rest of the M16 was junk. Busted rod with a hole in the block and missing pretty much everything else. I kept the Cam, lifters ,springs, valves and head for some reason or another. Need them? lol 

 

Simply dropping a newer flywheel could be enough to knock a couple loose. (or give it a sharp whack on the outside with a heavy ball-peen hammer) 

 

I have 1 flywheel off of a k241 engine and 2 off of newer M12 and M16 in the shed.   I have had some they glued the magnets in with some sort of white or yellow rubberized adhesive those were older flywheels but the newer ones seem to all be glued with a thin layer of hard epoxy. Doesn't take much to knock a magnet loose on a newer flywheel.  

 

Other than that I can't think of a way to get them off unbroken. The M12 flywheel has round spring clips

 

Heat kills that type of magnet so that won't work unless you can find a way to keep the magnets cool and heat the flywheel enough to release the epoxy. And trying to knock 1 off with a chisel will more than likely just shatter the magnet.


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#9 EricFromPa ONLINE  

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Posted December 06, 2017 - 04:45 PM

I've never seen a 5 magnet flywheel.  Can't understand how it could work right, as there would be 2 magnets of the same pole orientation in a row, and to charge correctly the pole orientation must alternate???  I'd just use a K341 flywheel and a 15 amp stator assembly.

 

:ditto: :iagree: :yeah_that: lol   Haven't seen a Kohler flywheel with magnet orientation like that either.  

 

Alot of the Kawasaki engines use 5 magnets but they are longer and have about a 1" gap between the magnets.



#10 GardnMastr OFFLINE  

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Posted December 06, 2017 - 08:06 PM

They did make a 5 magnet flywheel and it was balanced that way. If you glued in a sixth magnet, were you then going to send it out and have it rebalanced? Leave the flywheel alone and use the 15 amp stator and regulator. Just under 15 amps is way better than the other oddball charging systems.

#11 WpgJetFan OFFLINE  

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Posted December 07, 2017 - 06:47 PM

Thanks for all of the input...

Part number is clear on the 5 magnet wheel but no one has commented regarding specific number related to a 5 magnet wheel... although I do seem to agree that missing the sixth magnet sets the north/south orientations off for the charging system to work.  I'll check with compass if I can scrape one up to see what magnets are on that one...  Brian  wpgjetfan



#12 KennyP ONLINE  

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Posted December 08, 2017 - 07:20 AM

Here's a couple screen shots from the K361 parts manual. it shows 3 different flywheels.

ScreenShot152.jpg

ScreenShot153.jpg

 

 

We do have that manual in the Kohler section.






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