Jump to content

Garden Tractors and Parts on eBay



Photo
- - - - -

Purchased HDT1000 #11!


  • Please log in to reply
82 replies to this topic

#16 fonz3482 OFFLINE  

fonz3482

    Tractorholic

  • Senior Member
  • Member No: 84
  • 1,243 Thanks
  • 763 posts
  • Location: Eden, New York

Posted November 25, 2017 - 08:11 PM

I had another question. Was there any brochures or dealer literature floating around for this tractor?? Anyone have any original dealer pricing on one of these tractors? It be really cool to know what one of these cost back then and what it equates to today...
  • Austen and kjmweld have said thanks

#17 Austen ONLINE  

Austen
  • Senior Member
  • Member No: 33768
  • 1,460 Thanks
  • 840 posts
  • Location: Kirkland, WA

Posted November 25, 2017 - 10:14 PM

Wow, thank you for the very informative post, Kevin! It gives me a lot to digest and consider. From one enthusiast to another, I enjoy reading and appreciating your thoughts and theories on the history of the Bolens brand and this particular model.

 

 

I priced having one cut (CNC) complete from a solid block of a HSLA like a 942 or a 950 and the price was ASTRONOMICAL ! we dropped back to 4140 and to be made in 4 pieces with the strengthening rails machined in on the front and the PTO mule drive engagement slot ears also, rather than weld all those individual pieces on, I was going to weld the front, back and sides then. You may not need the original strengthening rails with a steel piece... I'm pretty fussy about looking original, but that's me. Even with family in the tool and die trade buying the time for a one-off in a CNC macine was cost prohibitive, like I could buy another nice LF, real nice. I'll match my L.F. broken bolster replacement prowess against anyone's and hold my own :) as I've talked to some of our part recyclers I now believe as Bob Hill indicated to me when I posed the "why do they break" ? question to him . I believe there has to be better than 1000- 1 ratio of non failure to failure. Bob's theory is that's why the addition of the front axle stops came to be, keeping them in tight adjustment is paramount especially with a FEL, any extra weight to the front, throw in axle pivot pin bushing wear ( most L.F.'s had the bushings) and the stops not in contact with the axle would allow unwanted side flex on the center pivot pin. EVERY one I encountered that were cracked, ALL of them were cracked from the axle pivot pin mounting holes in the bolster minimum . I've changed out over a dozen.

 

That's good to know! It sounds like you've already explored that avenue then. I agree, a replacement would need to replicate the original from an aesthetics standpoint. I will plan to take you up on your offer to purchase a good used bolster. It sounds like with proper care and common judgement, these shouldn't have reason to haphazardly break.

 

 

I asked Rick Show to pose the export only question of the HDT to the gentlemen who's father was a engineer for Bolens and posted stories on Facebook, as of now yet to hear anything.
My theory is as Bolens did with every redundant model ,they wanted to work with what they had, the expense of importing the European Ducati ,skepticism of an air cooled diesel, inherent problems with the Ducati, expense of exportation of the unit to Europe, maybe combine a lukewarm reception, lack of marketing strategy the project was doomed anyways. I'll also surmise someone had enough pull with the project and sold the idea they should look east to the myriad of inexpensive water cooled small displacement units coming out of Japan thus the Mitsubishi experiment . I think with the cheap importation of the Iseki diesels ,import (engine)then export of the complete HDT tractor, FMC bean counters pulled the plug on the project, ultimately in my opinion the Iseki's along with the scare of product liability lawsuits led to the demise of the Large Frame.

It was a relatively short amount of time for the diesel powered large frame 1987 was the end of the Large frame and also around the time FMC ended its tenure as Bolens parent company, leaving the short lived employee buyout of the Port Washington facility,I don't believe they had enough operating capital to pursue foreign markets. If memory serves Japan wasn't allowed access to the European union markets nor their products even if via the USA so the Iseki's weren't headed in that direction. The Iseki's did well enough here to fill a void, Garden Way took over and the beginning of the end was on.

 

Thanks! You'll have to keep us informed if/when you hear back a response from him.

 

Interesting, your theories about the small Iseki sub-compacts sort of phasing large frames out makes total sense. Dave also had the same thoughts on this as well. The recipe of a large frame with an inline 3-cylinder diesel still seems like the 'ultimate holy-grail' package. The successful Large Frame model line seems as if it was designed up to perfection, only one of the final (perfected) renditions was unfortunately not mass produced due to economics at the time and not due to being a deficient product. I have to think that if the the HDT1000 was produced in the 90s here in the states, that it would have been a success. 

 

 

I think you did very well Austen, I agree with Mr. South as it is the Holy Trail of the Large Frames , kudos to Dave (Old Buzzard) for letting me in on it, and keeping his promise to stay active here, he is a wealth of knowledge, a champion of the Bolens brand and a pretty good guy ( damn good actually !) Thanks Dave .

 

Yes, I couldn't agree more about Dave. I signed on this morning and found a PM from him stating to give him a call and I had the pleasure of chatting with him for the better part of an hour or more this afternoon; I learned a lot! We have him to thank due to his tremendous amount of research on the HDT1000 model in particular; he's truly is a wonderful resource because of it. I thoroughly enjoyed talking with him and hearing his enthusiasm for Bolens.

 

I look forward to the day I get to meet many of you in person. :thumbs: :thumbs:

 

 

Awesome Austen! Can’t believe the 1886 is gonna be on the selling block! That 1886 is one of my favorites! Everything you’ve done with it has been top notch and like art work to me! Wish I had the coin to even fathom making you an offer on it! Sad to see it go, but I look forward to watching you clean up and make improvements on your new toy!

 

Thanks, Alfonso! I appreciate the compliments. It will be hard to let go of it for sure but I look forward to starting a new chapter. :thumbs:


  • Mark 149 J. said thank you

#18 OldBuzzard ONLINE  

OldBuzzard

    Tractorholic

  • Senior Member
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 805
  • 6,963 Thanks
  • 4,775 posts
  • Location: Oberlin, OH

Posted November 25, 2017 - 10:17 PM

I don't know of any Brochures, literature, or pricing information.

 

All I've seen of it is it's listed for 1981 and 1982 in the 1996 Bolens Service Seminar. It's shown, and specs given in the 3-85 revision of the Bolens Large Frame Service Manual, and a page in the Engineering Changes stuff that I gave to Jerome, which he posted a pic of.

 

As for pricing, nothing. But I can give an semi educated guess based on the pricing difference between the HT23 and HD20D.

 

In 1980 the list price for the HT23 was 4500.00 and the HT20D was 5400.00, making the 20D 900.00 more expensive.

 

In 1981 the list price for the HT23 was 5155.00 and the HT20D was 6060.00, making the 20D 905.00 more expensive.

 

For the sake or argument, lets keep the same margin of difference between the HT23 and HDT1000.

 

In 1984 the HT23s version was 6450.00.  If we add the 900.00 difference the HDT1000 would have been 7350.00.

 

Now plugging those numbers into a US Gov. inflation calculator shows the HT23s would be 15,166.86 and the HDT1000 would be 17,243.16 in today's dollars.

 

I'll also note that the prices above are for just the tractors. Any attachments: mower deck, tiller, front blade, etc. would have been extra.

 


  • Austen, Mark 149 J., Doug E. and 1 other said thanks

#19 wilberj ONLINE  

wilberj
  • Senior Member
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 51
  • 4,936 Thanks
  • 5,565 posts
  • Location: Michigan

Posted November 26, 2017 - 12:20 AM

FMC was out of Bolens by 1982.   


  • Mark 149 J. said thank you

#20 OldBuzzard ONLINE  

OldBuzzard

    Tractorholic

  • Senior Member
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 805
  • 6,963 Thanks
  • 4,775 posts
  • Location: Oberlin, OH

Posted November 26, 2017 - 01:23 AM

FMC was out of Bolens by 1982.   

 

Really?

 

So, who owned Bolens from 1982-1988 when they were bought by Garden Way?

 

Inquiring minds want to know.



#21 WrenchinOnIt OFFLINE  

WrenchinOnIt
  • Senior Member
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 8592
  • 3,522 Thanks
  • 955 posts

Posted November 26, 2017 - 01:43 AM

Really?
 
So, who owned Bolens from 1982-1988 when they were bought by Garden Way?
 
Inquiring minds want to know.


Dave the employees used their pension fund as collateral and I believe it was 1982 they bought Bolens from FMC , then sold to Garden Way in 1988. Some info over on MTF. I speak in generalities often and leave specifics alone. My speculation of the HDT history didn’t account for specifics, for again it was just speculation.
  • Bolens 1000 and LPBolens have said thanks

#22 wilberj ONLINE  

wilberj
  • Senior Member
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 51
  • 4,936 Thanks
  • 5,565 posts
  • Location: Michigan

Posted November 26, 2017 - 09:11 AM

Really?

 

So, who owned Bolens from 1982-1988 when they were bought by Garden Way?

 

Inquiring minds want to know.

 

 

https://books.google...es 1982&f=false

 

I had 3 newspapers on google that I saved the link to that showed the employees bought bolens in 1982 but the links no longer work.    I have talked to good handful of employees and higher up guys that worked at bolens.  It has ranged from I dont want to talk about bolens to them telling me all about there time there.  Most still feel very burned about the deal and losing there retirement but most seemed to like there time there before that.  



#23 blackjackjakexxix ONLINE  

blackjackjakexxix

    Blackjackjakexxix

  • Senior Member
  • Member No: 2194
  • 2,868 Thanks
  • 2,072 posts
  • Location: Pulaski,Pa 16143

Posted November 26, 2017 - 12:34 PM

I don't know of any Brochures, literature, or pricing information.

All I've seen of it is it's listed for 1981 and 1982 in the 1996 Bolens Service Seminar. It's shown, and specs given in the 3-85 revision of the Bolens Large Frame Service Manual, and a page in the Engineering Changes stuff that I gave to Jerome, which he posted a pic of.

As for pricing, nothing. But I can give an semi educated guess based on the pricing difference between the HT23 and HD20D.

In 1980 the list price for the HT23 was 4500.00 and the HT20D was 5400.00, making the 20D 900.00 more expensive.

In 1981 the list price for the HT23 was 5155.00 and the HT20D was 6060.00, making the 20D 905.00 more expensive.

For the sake or argument, lets keep the same margin of difference between the HT23 and HDT1000.

In 1984 the HT23s version was 6450.00. If we add the 900.00 difference the HDT1000 would have been 7350.00.

Now plugging those numbers into a US Gov. inflation calculator shows the HT23s would be 15,166.86 and the HDT1000 would be 17,243.16 in today's dollars.

I'll also note that the prices above are for just the tractors. Any attachments: mower deck, tiller, front blade, etc. would have been extra.

Austen,never heard anything back from him on production numbers,or why export only

Edited by blackjackjakexxix, November 26, 2017 - 03:04 PM.

  • Austen said thank you

#24 Doug E. ONLINE  

Doug E.
  • Senior Member
  • Member No: 78641
  • 287 Thanks
  • 156 posts
  • Location: PNW

Posted November 26, 2017 - 03:55 PM

Fwiw,  I have a receipt for the sale of an Ht23 in Oct. 88 from a dealer for $6000, less the trade in for an HT18 of $2150.  No attachments included in the sale.  I suspect this was a machine held in stock, since I know that this dealer had stock on the floor until the dealership went into an estate. 

 

D.


  • Bolens 1000, wilberj, blackjackjakexxix and 1 other said thanks

#25 olcowhand ONLINE  

olcowhand

    Red Tractor Nut & Diesel Addict

  • Staff Admin
  • Staff
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Sponsor
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 20
  • 39,554 Thanks
  • 30,944 posts
  • Location: South Central Kentucky

Posted November 26, 2017 - 04:10 PM

Glad you got that tractor Austen, and what a rare piece to own.  I just love diesels!  Look forward to seeing you sitting on it!


  • Austen said thank you

#26 captaindemo17 OFFLINE  

captaindemo17
  • Member
  • Member No: 78684
  • 45 Thanks
  • 40 posts
  • Location: Monticello,Ia

Posted November 26, 2017 - 06:31 PM

There was a guy from Sweden that makes the front bolsters out of steel. These things looked just like if not better than the originals did. Although for the life of me I cant find the pictures but I do have his contact info on Facebook messenger. Cant remember the prices but they werent bad at all if i remember. Only thing that was possibly a snag was transport to the us. 


  • blackjackjakexxix, Austen and kjmweld have said thanks

#27 ClassicBolens OFFLINE  

ClassicBolens
  • Senior Member
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 48806
  • 1,375 Thanks
  • 494 posts
  • Location: IN

Posted November 27, 2017 - 09:05 AM

Congrats Austen! I am relieved to see it go to someone who will truly appreciate it for what it is and I'm sure it will receive the proper care.

I know only a handful of people were made aware of it's existence. I will likely forever kick myself for not jumping at the opportunity when it was presented. My thoughts quickly ranged from where would I put it? My wife gave me the "look" when I showed her. What could I sell quickly to fund it? How much is my first born child worth? What would I even do with it? I already have 2 HT's that rarely get any seat time. Realistically, I felt that it was better to go to someone that would use it for more than a conversation piece or garage queen (dust collector).

I'm relieved to know that we'll be able to follow it's progression here and hopefully get to see it in action from time to time. Awesome!
  • fonz3482, blackjackjakexxix, Austen and 1 other said thanks

#28 ClassicBolens OFFLINE  

ClassicBolens
  • Senior Member
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 48806
  • 1,375 Thanks
  • 494 posts
  • Location: IN

Posted November 27, 2017 - 09:46 AM

https://books.google...es 1982&f=false

I had 3 newspapers on google that I saved the link to that showed the employees bought bolens in 1982 but the links no longer work. I have talked to good handful of employees and higher up guys that worked at bolens. It has ranged from I dont want to talk about bolens to them telling me all about there time there. Most still feel very burned about the deal and losing there retirement but most seemed to like there time there before that.

I saved copies of those articles :)

Attached Thumbnails

  • Milwakuee Journal - Aug 3, 1982.jpg
  • Milwakuee Journal - Aug 3, 1982-cont.jpg
  • Milwakuee Journal - Jan 12, 1987.jpg
  • Milwaukee Sentinal - Jan 13, 1987.jpg
  • Milwakuee Journal - June 15, 1985.jpg

  • Bolens 1000, fonz3482, blackjackjakexxix and 5 others have said thanks

#29 blackjackjakexxix ONLINE  

blackjackjakexxix

    Blackjackjakexxix

  • Senior Member
  • Member No: 2194
  • 2,868 Thanks
  • 2,072 posts
  • Location: Pulaski,Pa 16143

Posted November 27, 2017 - 10:17 AM

Brian,if Todd has no problem with using his articles,can these be placed in a pinned file of some sort,once these disappear there gone forever,just a thought
  • KennyP and kjmweld have said thanks

#30 ClassicBolens OFFLINE  

ClassicBolens
  • Senior Member
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 48806
  • 1,375 Thanks
  • 494 posts
  • Location: IN

Posted November 27, 2017 - 11:14 AM

Brian,if Todd has no problem with using his articles,can these be placed in a pinned file of some sort,once these disappear there gone forever,just a thought


I've got a bunch more like these. I'll put them together sometime and make a new thread.
  • olcowhand, fonz3482, blackjackjakexxix and 3 others have said thanks




Top