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Case 224 No Spark, Assistance Needed Please


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#1 jpswift1 OFFLINE  

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Posted November 14, 2017 - 11:19 PM

Another project that I've been working on here and there.......an essentially free, Case 224 tractor.  I bought a Case 195 (that I've since sold) and the guy that I bought it from told me to take this 224 with it.  It is in nice shape, but the K321 had a broken rod and someone rewired it (and did a somewhat decent job it appears).  I love the big white and orange Case Agri-King and Traction-King farm tractors with the orange and silver wheels, so that's exactly how I'm doing this one up.  I also have a set of brand new 23x10.50-12 Carlisle Tru Power ag tires that have just been sitting and waiting to be used on something.  I'm going to add some 16x6.50-8 ag tires on the front to make it have that "big farm tractor" look.  I was hoping this would be an easy, quick side project that would be very inexpensive to do, and I could use it for a little tug or something because it's small (compared to my bigger garden tractors) and powerful. 

 

I originally was going to just part this out, but it's too nice.  Last month I found a running Kohler K301 12HP that a guy had in a Case tractor, locally here on Cragislist, very cheap.  I installed it, turned the key and it spun over!  Everything works including the headlights........except it has NO spark.  I heard great things about these torquey and heavy old Kohlers (holy heII this thing was a bear to lift in the tractor myself!)  I just can't seem to get this newly swapped engine to fire though.  I believe it's all wired up correctly, the previous owner installed new points (there's no spark at the points and they've been cleaned and are opening and closing as they should).  Is there anything that you guys would recommend that I do next?  Is it a bad coil, bad condenser, wiring issue?  Any help would be appreciated.  If anyone can figure this out, it'd be you guys! 



#2 Leonard VanCamp OFFLINE  

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Posted November 14, 2017 - 11:27 PM

I would start at the coil, see if you are getting power to the positive side first, then check for power coming from the negative side, if you have power going in but none coming out then it's a bad coil.


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#3 KennyP ONLINE  

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Posted November 15, 2017 - 06:01 AM

Be sure the wire to the points isn't grounding somewhere too. And the condenser is good.


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#4 kencombs OFFLINE  

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Posted November 15, 2017 - 11:14 AM

Just follow the wiring, testing voltage at each point.  Switch to coil, coil to points.  A test light clipped to the coil + terminal and ground is a good diagnostic tool.

 

With the key on, points open the light should be on.  When points close it should go off.  Blink when cranking. 

 

Let us know how it goes.


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#5 Bolens 1000 OFFLINE  

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Posted November 15, 2017 - 01:03 PM

Would start with something simple, try without the points cover on, seen alot of these K series ground out on the box cover, other than that maybe condenser , the 12vt coils dont go bad all that often



#6 dodge trucker ONLINE  

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Posted November 15, 2017 - 01:20 PM

 
With the key on, points open the light should be on.  When points close it should go off.  Blink when cranking. 
 
Let us know how it goes.


Isn't that backwards? Test light on when closed I thought. Open points= open circuit= no light.

#7 kencombs OFFLINE  

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Posted November 15, 2017 - 02:20 PM

Isn't that backwards? Test light on when closed I thought. Open points= open circuit= no light.

Nope, open points lights the light as the circuit is completed coil-bulb-ground.  Closed points, current flows through the lower resistance ground path, extinguishing the light.



#8 WNYTractorTinkerer OFFLINE  

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Posted November 15, 2017 - 03:42 PM

Isn't that backwards? Test light on when closed I thought. Open points= open circuit= no light.

I agree DT..

 

With the tester hooked to the + side of the coil key on you should get a bright light @ the point to coil wire with the points closed.  (the primary circuit on the coil charges/energizes)

 

Once the points open up it triggers the energy to transfer to the secondary winding and spark happens..  If you don't see any change when the points open or close you have a short to ground on your point wiring or shorted condenser.  

 

I use a battery powered test lite to set timing on my 2-stroke engines and the same is true-  points closed= brite lite.  When they open the light dims (some flow to ground through the condenser) and the piston position when that happens should be @ the timing setpoint (Inches BTDC).  The engines I set up like that ran great..  

 

So the theory of coils and spark / timing all are the same but many engines use different processes to set it..  (or even create it)

 

Points closed completes the primary coil charging circuit..

 

Hope this helps



#9 kencombs OFFLINE  

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Posted November 15, 2017 - 04:58 PM

I agree DT..

 

With the tester hooked to the + side of the coil key on you should get a bright light @ the point to coil wire with the points closed.  (the primary circuit on the coil charges/energizes)

 

Once the points open up it triggers the energy to transfer to the secondary winding and spark happens..  If you don't see any change when the points open or close you have a short to ground on your point wiring or shorted condenser.  

 

I use a battery powered test lite to set timing on my 2-stroke engines and the same is true-  points closed= brite lite.  When they open the light dims (some flow to ground through the condenser) and the piston position when that happens should be @ the timing setpoint (Inches BTDC).  The engines I set up like that ran great..  

 

So the theory of coils and spark / timing all are the same but many engines use different processes to set it..  (or even create it)

 

Points closed completes the primary coil charging circuit..

 

Hope this helps

 

See my red highlite above:  The battery powered light and no equipment  battery to the ignition is the difference.  In your test, the external battery source is grounded through the points.  When testing a battery powered ignition see my earlier explanation.. 

 

Magneto or self-powered systems are not the same as Kettering ignitions.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delco_ignition_system


Edited by kencombs, November 15, 2017 - 04:59 PM.

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#10 brillion man OFFLINE  

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Posted November 15, 2017 - 09:28 PM

I was working on a 220 today . turned over but no spark. I ran a wire straight form + battery to coil where the wire came from switch. I then i had spark. I then replace the wire from switch to coil and fixed the problem. I bought a 155 from a guy who could not get to run He had put the condenser on the wrong side of the coil. On the kohler engine the condenser is hooked up on the side that goes to the points. I would pull a dollar bill between the point when closed to clean any dirt. Instant message with a phone # and we can talk if you want.

thanks brillion man.


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#11 jpswift1 OFFLINE  

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Posted November 17, 2017 - 02:02 AM

I was working on a 220 today . turned over but no spark. I ran a wire straight form + battery to coil where the wire came from switch. I then i had spark. I then replace the wire from switch to coil and fixed the problem. I bought a 155 from a guy who could not get to run He had put the condenser on the wrong side of the coil. On the kohler engine the condenser is hooked up on the side that goes to the points. I would pull a dollar bill between the point when closed to clean any dirt. Instant message with a phone # and we can talk if you want.

thanks brillion man.

 

Thank you all for the input!  I really appreciate it, guys!  The gentleman that I got the Kohler K301 from said it ran great and he was a very good guy and very trustworthy, so I don't doubt him.  Someone did do some rewiring on my Case tractor before me, so I think Brillionman is right about the wiring issue.  I'm going to run a wire from the + on the battery to the + on the coil tomorrow and see what happens.  If it has spark, I'm all set........then it's just fun stuff like putting the ag tires on, new paint, and decals.






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