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How electronic solenoid works


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#1 BrokenTractor OFFLINE  

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Posted November 07, 2017 - 02:19 PM

Hello,

 

I have been having a problem where the engine just quits after a few minutes. So I decided to order a new carb complete.

 

In the meantime, the way ignition system works is I flip a toggle switch and it supplies current to the electronic solenoid. 

 

So when current is supplied the metal tip of the shaft retracts into the metal cylinder. This seems correct. What I don't get is if I keep

current to the electronic solenoid after say 5 seconds the metal travels out of the metal cylinder ( this is a the normal state when resting )

 

Is this supposed to happen? Also I have seen it travel back and forth fairly quickly. I don't know enough about it but I thought  as long as current is supplied the metal tip should be retracted inside the metal cylinder.

 

Does anyone know how this is supposed to work?

 

Thanks,

BT


Edited by BrokenTractor, November 07, 2017 - 02:20 PM.


#2 VTXrider OFFLINE  

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Posted November 07, 2017 - 03:16 PM

You are correct with your description of how a solenoid works. Are you referring the solenoid on the carb? They do go bad and will shut down the engine for lack of fuel. It will also cause engines to not start for the same reason.


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#3 BrokenTractor OFFLINE  

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Posted November 07, 2017 - 03:24 PM

You are correct with your description of how a solenoid works. Are you referring the solenoid on the carb? They do go bad and will shut down the engine for lack of fuel. It will also cause engines to not start for the same reason.

"You are correct with your description of how a solenoid works."

 

VTXrider so as long as current is supplied the metal tip should retract and stay retracted?



#4 VTXrider OFFLINE  

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Posted November 07, 2017 - 04:26 PM

Yes.


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#5 WNYTractorTinkerer ONLINE  

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Posted November 07, 2017 - 04:28 PM

The solenoid on the carb is called an 'anti-backfire' solenoid.  It halts the flow of fuel into the engine after you turn it off.  Since the engine parts are hot if you kept putting fuel into the combustion chamber the hot parts (exhaust valve & plug usually) will auto ignite the fuel air mixture present without any regard to what position the piston / valves are in..  I've had backfires blow the tops off pistons before..  nope-  it ain't purty..  Hope this helps..



#6 BrokenTractor OFFLINE  

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Posted November 07, 2017 - 04:36 PM

Interesting WNY,

 

The reason I want to make sure VTXRider is maybe it is a wiring issue? I mean from the regular solenoid to the toggle switch and then on to the Electronic Solenoid?

 

I am not asking you for an answer here, but maybe I should take the wire coming out of + wire coming out of the ES, and run it directly to the post on the regular solenoid thereby bypassing the toggle switch I have. If it does not stay retracted here then it is the ES. I think the regular solenoid is OK because it cranks the starter.

 

Or maybe just get a new regular solenoid and new toggle switch too.

 

Jim



#7 MolonLabe OFFLINE  

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Posted November 07, 2017 - 05:56 PM

Hello,

 

I have been having a problem where the engine just quits after a few minutes. So I decided to order a new carb complete.

 

In the meantime, the way ignition system works is I flip a toggle switch and it supplies current to the electronic solenoid. 

 

So when current is supplied the metal tip of the shaft retracts into the metal cylinder. This seems correct. What I don't get is if I keep

current to the electronic solenoid after say 5 seconds the metal travels out of the metal cylinder ( this is a the normal state when resting )

 

Is this supposed to happen? Also I have seen it travel back and forth fairly quickly. I don't know enough about it but I thought  as long as current is supplied the metal tip should be retracted inside the metal cylinder.

 

Does anyone know how this is supposed to work?

 

Thanks,

BT

 

Monitor the voltage to the solenoid when this occurs. If the voltage remains constant the solenoid is bad (coil breaking down) if the voltage drops the problem is elsewhere.



#8 lrhredjb OFFLINE  

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Posted November 07, 2017 - 06:12 PM

Are you talking about the solenoid used to supply the current to the starter? Unless there is some kind of safety interlock system the ignition system does not require a solenoid to work. A toggle switch would be used for an electric pto or something similar.Low voltage can cause the solenoid to pick and drop, sometimes chatter. Is this factory wired or owner modified?



#9 BrokenTractor OFFLINE  

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Posted November 07, 2017 - 06:59 PM

Are you talking about the solenoid used to supply the current to the starter? Unless there is some kind of safety interlock system the ignition system does not require a solenoid to work. A toggle switch would be used for an electric pto or something similar.Low voltage can cause the solenoid to pick and drop, sometimes chatter. Is this factory wired or owner modified?

Is this factory wired or owner modified

 

It is modified. I was having way to many problems with multiple electrical issues. So I took out all of the wiring. I have a 12V battery connected to a traditional solenoid. The starter is a push button and turns the flywheel. Also because I have an electronic solenoid that screws in underneath the carb bowl, I need power there too. So I have a toggle switch that I flip right before the starter turns over. I keep the switch on until it is time to shutdown the motor and I flip the toggle to off.  

 

I am not sure what you are saying. The electronic solenoid has a molex coming out of the bottom. Black goes to the frame and white goes to the + side of regular solenoid via a toggle  switch.

 

This setup has worked great for the last 6 months, until say 2 weeks ago, when the engine would run for about 10 minutes then quit. 



#10 lrhredjb OFFLINE  

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Posted November 08, 2017 - 10:02 AM

So is the carb solenoid de energized when it quits? You might have to rig up a meter or test light to be sure. Could be faulty connection in the circuit. If solenoid is energized check out fuel flow.



#11 BrokenTractor OFFLINE  

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Posted November 08, 2017 - 03:51 PM

So is the carb solenoid de energized when it quits? You might have to rig up a meter or test light to be sure. Could be faulty connection in the circuit. If solenoid is energized check out fuel flow.

Great tip here. Going with new carb. and if I still have problems will try it. Fuel flow is to good - if that is possible. 



#12 VTXrider OFFLINE  

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Posted November 09, 2017 - 10:23 AM

So you have a separate switch to the carb solenoid and the power connection is at the starter solenoid. Simple enough. As suggested above, check for power at the carb solenoid with a meter or a 12v test lamp connected across the solenoid wires. You may have to stick a pin into the solenoid side of the molex connector to obtain a point of connection.

 

Put a bolt or screw in place of the solenoid and run the engine until a new solenoid can be installed. Much cheaper than a new carburetor. If it run for 10 minutes, the carb is working.


Edited by VTXrider, November 09, 2017 - 10:24 AM.





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