47 replies to this topic

[Glenn Ayers]

zuren

Here's a drawing of the new arm you will need to weld to your rockshaft to move the cylinder to the rear lower left like a 1980 PK;

The arm gets positioned at a 90 degree angle to the lift arms that are welded to the outboard ends of the rockshaft.

I remember you saying something about leaving the OEM lift bar that now rotates the rockshaft, in place. ??

If so .... then I would attack this new arm this way >     Fasten a bungee cord to the top of your existing rockshaft arm & pull it to its forward most position (as in fully lifting an implement) ... with your cylinder now affixed in it's new rear lower left position ... FULLY extend the cylinder.    Mark with chalk, your spacing from the side of the bearing block (A) (1-7/16") ... to the side edge of your new arm (B) which you should have prefabricated & have in hand.  Pin the new arm to the Fully extended cylinder & position it against the rockshaft ... to the chalk mark & see if it puts the new arm at a 90 to the outer lift arms ©. 

It may be more or less than a 90 ... but I would say to weld it on at a 90 if you can.  This will prevent your lift arms from ending up at some funky unusable angle.

 

BTW     You will see in the drawing a lift arm measurement of 2-1/4" from the center of hole to the shaft .... keep in mind that this is just where the arm meets the shaft ... you will need this arm longer to cut in the radius so it fits around the shaft a little for welding.

Total length of the arm should be around 3-1/2"

Making this arm longer & adding more holes will give you more lifting power (by moving the cylinder pinning)... but shorten your lifting travel

Just tips to keep you from looking at measurements & cutting plates too short.

Another tip .... Use good deep penetrating weld on this new lift arm to the rockshaft !  It WILL BREAK OFF IF NOT WELDED PROPERLY !

(don't ask me how I know)

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[zuren]

I spent some time with my tractor and a tape measure last night.  I can confirm that the frame of a 1979 Power King is like that of the earlier 1970s models.  I have a cross-member roughly 14" forward of the end of the main frame rails.  

 

So if you have a 1970s vintage Power King, I feel it is safe to say that the solution for mounting the cylinder is what you see in Post #17.

[glgrumpy]

Would think could use same cross' shaft of solid metal with TWO outer sections seperate from each other, but still using same cross bar for support. If not seperate, they will just be fighting each other and not work. You could use the older outer cylinder going back to the 3pt, then put another lower tab below, just like on left side on tractor with lower cylinder. Have a rod from that new link go up to the new outer part on the center of tractor as I noted. This would allow the 3pt to be seperate as is now, but option of putting other items on same cylinder by mounting tabs below on rockshaft.  Then with lower cylinder on other side and it's half of rockshaft with tabs, could run front blade or deck or other items all depending on where you mount lift tabs.

[zuren]

Regarding the cylinder for the lifting the 3 pt. - are we forced into sourcing a used PK cylinder or is there a modern option available?  There was a used PK cylinder posted on Ebay for $60 (I think) but no longer see it.

 

Regarding the idea of a hydraulic top link, I found this option for Cat 0 - https://www.agristor...raulic-top-link

 

I suppose you could also use a shorter Cat 1 top link and use adapter sleeves to size it down to the Cat 0 pins.

Edited by zuren, November 13, 2017 - 10:40 AM.

[BowlBuilder]

I have read this post with great interest and believe I can simplify a project like this greatly. The method I describe should be cheaper, require little to no fabrication skills and retain the important float feature to both cylinders. The cylinder mounting I can not simplify. This is how it works: a hydraulic selector valve such as this is used:

https://www.surplusc...alve-9-6134.axd

Mount the selectorl valve wherever it is convienent to access. Requires drilling two holes. Retain your stock control valve and tee off the valve the hoses that run to the top of the cylinders. Plumb hose from bottom of original cylinder into selector valve. Run hoses from two exit ports in selector valve to the bottom of the two cylinders. If using your front cylinder and want to switch to the back, just lift the implement fully and pull/push valve to lock fluid in the bottom of the cylinder preventing it from moving and proceed to use the other cylinder. This will allow you to use both cylinders independently at full speed using your stock valve. I hope this helps anyone trying to accomplish this modification.

Edited by BowlBuilder, July 09, 2018 - 10:59 AM.

[zuren]

Regarding the cylinder for the lifting the 3 pt. - are we forced into sourcing a used PK cylinder or is there a modern option available?

 

I'm revisiting this project and this question specifically.  Do we know the specs on the factory hydraulic cylinder, and did that cylinder remain the same over the years?  I'm trying to sort out if a new cylinder is the best choice, or find a used PK cylinder.

 

I have read this post with great interest and believe I can simplify a project like this greatly. The method I describe should be cheaper, require little to no fabrication skills and retain the important float feature to both cylinders. The cylinder mounting I can not simplify. This is how it works: a hydraulic selector valve such as this is used:

https://www.surplusc...alve-9-6134.axd

Mount the selectorl valve wherever it is convienent to access. Requires drilling two holes. Retain your stock control valve and tee off the valve the hoses that run to the top of the cylinders. Plumb hose from bottom of original cylinder into selector valve. Run hoses from two exit ports in selector valve to the bottom of the two cylinders. If using your front cylinder and want to switch to the back, just lift the implement fully and pull/push valve to lock fluid in the bottom of the cylinder preventing it from moving and proceed to use the other cylinder. This will allow you to use both cylinders independently at full speed using your stock valve. I hope this helps anyone trying to accomplish this modification.

 

The idea of a selector switch, yet retaining the factory single spool valve (with float), is interesting.  Theoretically, you would have the ability to "float" either cylinder, whichever one you have selected at the time.  I would have to think about this approach.  I guess it would depend on what implements you have attached and what you were doing to know if switching back-and-forth would be a hassle or not.  

[Alc]

On my Jim Dandy it has the Century pump/valve together and when I wanted to add a cylinder to angle the snowplow I used a selector valve with 6 ports ( got it for free there too $$$ )  by moving the selector handle you used the original  pump/valve lever to either raise or angle the plow . I have it set-up with quick couplers at the front , the tractor has had the tiller on for the last few years . It's slightly cumbersome to remember to move the selector when changing from lift to angle . 

[zuren]

I'm circling back to this project/discussion...

 

I just acquired a loader, so if I'm tearing into the hydraulics, I might as well consider making the changes I want to the rear control valve.  I like the idea of the selector switch, but is there such a thing as a "3 position" unit?

 

If I'm understanding correctly, if I want the option of a 3rd cylinder to control (e.g., 3pt top link), I need a "3 position" switch OR a 3 spool control valve.  I agree that the selector switch might make things cleaner and retain my factory control valve, but I'm mostly seeing 2-position switches available.

 

I believe that the control valves for Power Kings are all by Dukes (part of QCC now):

 

https://www.qccorp.c...-valves/models/

 

https://www.qccorp.c...control-valves/

 

The model numbers I find for control valves in the Power King literature doesn't seem to align with their current naming.  Looks like their website is not up to date (images not working, spec. sheet link is broken), but I emailed and got a response.  A 3-spool control valve option is their Model 1632.  The handles even appear to be the same, or very close, since the 1970s.

 

If there isn't a good selector switch option, I may be leaning toward a 3-spool valve.      

Edited by zuren, April 27, 2020 - 09:58 AM.

[KennyP]

I'd just get the valve! Probably cheaper!

Here's what Surplus Canter is offering:

https://www.surplusc...:0\ to\ 10\ GPM

[zuren]

I'd just get the valve! Probably cheaper!

Here's what Surplus Canter is offering:

https://www.surplusc...:0\ to\ 10\ GPM

 

I think I agree that I'll just get a 3 spool control valve.  On that idea, I'm trying to sort out what I need...

 

To my knowledge, hydraulic cylinders on these tractors are "double acting".  I believe this is what a person needs if you are adding a 2 or 3 spool control valve:

 

- 3 position

- 4 way

- open center

- spring centered (handle)

- detent in float

- direct-acting ball and spring relief valve

 

Does this sound right?  I'm basing all of this on the options I see offered on this spec sheet (attached).

 

Thanks!

[Alc]

If you can find a valve that has “load check “ it would be helpful A few times I would lift something off my truck a small wood chipper comes in mind that the lift cylinders had plenty of power but as I was trying to keep it level with the bucket dump cylinders lowering it by curling the bucket there wasn’t enough pressure and the bucket dumped Hard to explain so maybe someone can do a better job

[Alc]

If you can find a valve that has “load check “ it would be helpful A few times I would lift something off my truck a small wood chipper comes in mind that the lift cylinders had plenty of power but as I was trying to keep it level with the bucket dump cylinders lowering it by curling the bucket there wasn’t enough pressure and the bucket dumped Hard to explain so maybe someone can do a better job

[Alc]

If you can find a valve that has “load check “ it would be helpful A few times I would lift something off my truck a small wood chipper comes in mind that the lift cylinders had plenty of power but as I was trying to keep it level with the bucket dump cylinders lowering it by curling the bucket there wasn’t enough pressure and the bucket dumped Hard to explain so maybe someone can do a better job

[zuren]

For a couple weeks now, I've been trying to communicate with Dukes/QCC.  The gal answering emails is very responsive.  Apparently they only have 1 product sales engineer per model line and that guy is unresponsive.  I'm trying to be kind considering the current situation of the pandemic, but I'm beginning to lose patience.  Finding info on Dukes control valves is nearly impossible (their website is terrible), and the few prices I've seen are quite high but can be extremely variable.  I can't get a sense on what a cost may be.  I'm wondering if they prefer to sell to manufacturers, and not to the public.

 

A Prince stacked unit may be what I go with.

[zuren]

I am continuing to dig into the specifics on the hydraulic cylinder for the 3PH on a 1980s PK, and adding one to my 1979 PK.  My goal would be something that is more-or-less factory.  I few images and noticed a few things in the attached images:

• The rod end of the cylinder appears to be solid (no slot) and simply cross drilled to accept a bolt or pin at the rock shaft.
• The attachment at the rock shaft appears to be 2 arms on the shaft, with the rod end going in the middle for attachment.
• The ports are oriented up.  I've seen images with the ports oriented down.

My questions:

1. Is everything I'm seeing in these 3 images the true, unaltered, factory setup?
2. Is there any issue with using a pre-1980 PK hydraulic cylinder with the slot cut in the rod end underneath the tractor in the 1980+ orientation?  I'm guessing that it really doesn't matter, aside from cosmetics with the slot, but want to make sure the size/travel is not different.
3. What is the length of the mounting tabs on the rock shaft, and the angle of those tabs in relation to the lift arm? (see pic)

I already acquired a pre-1980 PK hydraulic cylinder (with slot in rod end), then realized the difference with the rod ends.  I'm hoping the only difference is the rod end.

 

Thanks!

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