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Fixing up the Ford Model A Doodlebug


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#16 tiretrx OFFLINE  

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Posted October 14, 2017 - 08:00 AM

On enclosed driveshafts , did they use just one U-joint at the front? Was there gear oil up that far to keep it lubed so grease fittings not needed ?

 

Honestly, I'm not 100% sure of the stock setup. This came with one UJ and the linkage was totally open. I know stock was with a torque tube, and my assumption was with one UJ, grease packed. But, if folks know what came with the AA, I'd love to learn. 


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#17 SimplyRad OFFLINE  

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Posted October 14, 2017 - 09:57 AM

You can also use ceramic inserts for cutting hardened steel. I think I may still have some carbide inserts in my tool box from when I worked as a maintenance machinist.


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#18 jdcrawler OFFLINE  

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Posted October 14, 2017 - 01:20 PM

Honestly, I'm not 100% sure of the stock setup. This came with one UJ and the linkage was totally open. I know stock was with a torque tube, and my assumption was with one UJ, grease packed. But, if folks know what came with the AA, I'd love to learn. 

 

The Ford model-A ( cars and trucks ) had a rear axle and drive shaft housing as one unit that pivoted from the back of the transmission with one U-joint.

 

I can understand why your U-joint was in such bad shape with it now being exposed and no way to grease it.

Your modification will solve that problem for sure.

 

The model AA trucks moved the rear axle back a ways and had a frame cross member with a driveshaft cup that the rear axle pivoted from instead of from the transmission.

Then there was a short enclosed drive shaft between the transmission and that cross member pivot point.

 

Here is a diagram of a Ford model AA truck .. you can click on it to enlarge it.

 

AA chassis.jpg


Edited by jdcrawler, October 14, 2017 - 03:39 PM.

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#19 tiretrx OFFLINE  

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Posted October 14, 2017 - 08:36 PM

You can also use ceramic inserts for cutting hardened steel. I think I may still have some carbide inserts in my tool box from when I worked as a maintenance machinist.

 

Yes, absolutely, good point. We run a ceramic/metal composite insert for finish passes. Kennemetals(USA made) proprietary name is Cermet. They are super hard and extremely resistant to heat. Thanks!

The Ford model-A ( cars and trucks ) had a rear axle and drive shaft housing as one unit that pivoted from the back of the transmission with one U-joint.

 

I can understand why your U-joint was in such bad shape with it now being exposed and no way to grease it.

Your modification will solve that problem for sure.

 

The model AA trucks moved the rear axle back a ways and had a frame cross member with a driveshaft cup that the rear axle pivoted from instead of from the transmission.

Then there was a short enclosed drive shaft between the transmission and that cross member pivot point.

 

Here is a diagram of a Ford model AA truck .. you can click on it to enlarge it.

 

attachicon.gifAA chassis.jpg

 

Thanks a lot for the diagram, Ray. That explains a lot. I put a lot of time in today with the DB. Spent a ton thinking too. As happy as I was with the UJ mod.........I think I'm going to attempt something a bit different........flexible shaft. I manufacture it, and think it would be pretty neat to see how it would work in an auto environment.

 

Love to hear yours and others thoughts. 

 

http://www.bfgmarine...assemblies.html


Edited by tiretrx, October 15, 2017 - 08:41 AM.

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#20 MFDAC OFFLINE  

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Posted October 14, 2017 - 08:59 PM

Great thread Ellis, and so interesting! My cousin from Georgia is on a visit to the Crawford Notch New Hampshire area and just sent me this pic tonight. Is that a Model A Doodlebug posing with that International?

 

DAC

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  • binder and doodlebug by cousin Donna.jpg

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#21 tiretrx OFFLINE  

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Posted October 14, 2017 - 09:11 PM

Great thread Ellis, and so interesting! My cousin from Georgia is on a visit to the Crawford Notch New Hampshire area and just sent me this pic tonight. Is that a Model A Doodlebug posing with that International?

 

DAC

 

Thanks, appreciate the kind words. 

 

And yes, a doodlebug it is! 


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#22 tiretrx OFFLINE  

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Posted October 15, 2017 - 09:50 AM

Besides a whole lot of "noodling" yesterday, I actually did get some work done. The water pump shaft had about 3/8" of end play, and if left unaddressed it could cause a lot of damage to the engine block. Took the hood and the radiator off.
 
Attach16451_20171014_143101.jpg
 
Is there a better sound than when a stubborn pulley finally "pops"? This one was a bear.
 
Attach16456_20171014_144938.jpg
 
I removed the water pump itself, and when I saw the impeller fins, the damage was obvious, and the corresponding wear was in the engine block. The good news was, there was no structural damage. I think if I take care of the end play, it will work for many years.
 
Attach16473_20171014_205401.jpg
 
This is my solution. The shaft is 5/8". I had a few 3/4" collars in stock, but no 5/8". Bummer. But then I looked through some bushings and I found this 5/8" x 3/4" shoulder bearing. It's oil impregnated. Gets hot, oozes oil. So, I pressed it into the collar. I'll lock this next to the metal grease seal, and that will keep the impeller in place. Well, that's the plan anyway, lol. The good thing is I can periodically check for wear simply by checking end play.
 
Attach16452_20171014_143101.jpg
 
Earlier when I tried to drain the radiator I found the old petcock wasn't working. It was seized and plugged up. I just removed it and placed aside. Later, I went about seeing if I could get it working again. What emerged from a cleaning was this little gem. Imagine, a petcock, that no one was meant to see. A trivial apparatus of the day. But, as I looked at it(stared), I saw art, a pride and caring rare today. She'll go back on the DB, but it will be seen and talked about. It was a great day spent with a legend........love this thing.
 
Attach16471_20171014_205401.jpg

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#23 KennyP ONLINE  

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Posted October 15, 2017 - 11:24 AM

Sounds like you are having a good time working on it!


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#24 jdcrawler OFFLINE  

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Posted October 15, 2017 - 04:58 PM

I would think that flexible shaft would work perfect for your doodlebug. 

Taking into consideration that the your transmission doesn't move and the rear axle doesn't move .. you're not going to need a whole lot of flexing in your driveshaft.

 

Have you considered using a Lovejoy connector with the rubber insert ?

It would be a lot cheaper than the flexible shaft and I think it would work just as well.


Edited by jdcrawler, October 15, 2017 - 05:00 PM.

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#25 tiretrx OFFLINE  

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Posted October 15, 2017 - 07:18 PM

Sounds like you are having a good time working on it!

 

Honestly Kenny, there's just something about this one. Worked on and built a few things, but the history, the simplicity, has just grabbed me. And I'm learning as I go  :thumbs:

 

I would think that flexible shaft would work perfect for your doodlebug. 

Taking into consideration that the your transmission doesn't move and the rear axle doesn't move .. you're not going to need a whole lot of flexing in your driveshaft.

 

Have you considered using a Lovejoy connector with the rubber insert ?

It would be a lot cheaper than the flexible shaft and I think it would work just as well.

 

I agree Ray, but a big factor is the company I own manufactures the flex shafts. Most of the lengths we make range from 36" to thirty feet, so subsequently we get left with a lot of short pieces that usually get scrapped. Being as this one will be 12 to 15 inches, I'll just utilize the scraps to make it at no cost to me. Normally, our shafts are used for low RPM, valve control situations, but nonetheless our C type, with bidirectionally wrapped 1" steel cable is rated for 250 foot lbs. of torque. So, lots more than the A four banger produces. Plus, I guess I'd like to see how it stands up to this application. Who knows, maybe I'll be making driveshafts for doodlebugs if this works out  :dancingbanana:


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#26 Cat385B ONLINE  

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Posted October 15, 2017 - 08:41 PM

I agree Ray, but a big factor is the company I own manufactures the flex shafts. Who knows, maybe I'll be making driveshafts for doodlebugs if this works out  :dancingbanana:


'Attention, all employees: To heck with the Navy, we's in the doodlebug market! That will be all.'
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#27 tiretrx OFFLINE  

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Posted October 16, 2017 - 09:35 AM

'Attention, all employees: To heck with the Navy, we's in the doodlebug market! That will be all.'

 

I see massive upside, Scott. The purchasing power of the US Navy/Coast Guard vs. 10 or 12 folks like me, just looking to throw their money around. It's a no brainer, dude.


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#28 tiretrx OFFLINE  

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Posted October 16, 2017 - 06:14 PM

Started designing/building a new tranny yoke/output shaft. The existing setup was easily the weakest link in the drivetrain chain. Basically, big end of the tall shaft in the middle of the crossmember, slid over the gear at the rear of the tranny in pic two. That connection was covered by the tin cup at the lower left of the crossmember. Only the rigidity of the rear connection held this in place, and running somewhat concentric.  

 

IMG_20170930_154854.jpg IMG_20170930_154900.jpg

 

Without support the shaft took a beating. It measured around 1.290", but still varied up to .015". First, I wanted to true it up to a size we could work with, that being 1-1/4".

 

IMG_20171010_141915.jpg

 

Turned two snap ring grooves.

 

IMG_20171010_144122.jpg

 

Turned a heavy steel sleeve with bores on each end to install a couple surplus McGill roller bearings rated at 3200 rpms. Inserted shaft, capped with a couple bronze races, and popped in the snap rings. Stage one complete.

 

IMG_20171010_151445.jpg

 

IMG_20171010_151456.jpg


Edited by tiretrx, October 16, 2017 - 06:20 PM.

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#29 tiretrx OFFLINE  

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Posted October 18, 2017 - 10:04 AM

Got over a big hurdle and completed the new tranny output.

 

Took what we initially made and built another section, along with a bolting flange. Welded it all up.

 

db 9.jpg db 10.jpg

 

Fully assembled.

 

db 11.jpg

 

We added a zerk fitting to each roller bearing and installed it on the DB.

 

db 12.jpg

 

Time of truth.....a good long run through the gears. Ran splendid. Smooth, very concentric, quiet, and rock solid. Sigh of relief(so far). Time for a team high 5!

 

db 13.jpg

 

We need to add an oil seal, and it's done.


Edited by tiretrx, October 18, 2017 - 10:05 AM.

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#30 Austen OFFLINE  

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Posted October 18, 2017 - 01:14 PM

It doesn't get any better than that! :thumbs:  :thumbs:


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