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#76 29 Chev ONLINE  

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Posted February 10, 2018 - 02:42 PM

Having completed the PTO shaft, I turned my attention to the gearbox as the drive collar was sill in place but had been soaking with daily applications of WD40 and similar penetrating fluids.

 

This did the trick and with the threat of a copper mallet and an even bigger drift, the collar seemed to jump off without much of a tap? Surprising considering the resistance it gave last time.

 

As can bee seen in the photo, a repair is required to the collar and the picture shows the steel I plan to use.

 

I used a different piece of steel that was a little wider than the piece I first planed to use. Having scribed out the sizes I drilled (using my restored Mancuna B2 hand drill) the first hole with the biggest drill bit I have, 15mm and then preceded to hand file the rest using the pin as a guide until I has happy that the correct roundness was achieved.

 

I then measured where to cut the steel such that it would match up with the break on the drive collar and allow the pin to fit.

I cut long allowing me to chance to file down until I was happy with the fit, which can be seen was not a square fit. I had to adjust each side of the hole to get a good and level fit.

 

Once the fit was where I wanted it, I beveled the edges so that when it is welded, the weld will fill in the join rather than just on the surface.

 

Hopefully, when it is welded tomorrow, it should appear to be one piece?

 

John

 

Isle of man

 

Glad you got it off.  Check to make sure that the pin is snug in the main hole next to the wheel hub and if you can make the hole where you weld the new ear on a very loose fit around the pin.  The reason I mention this is that I repaired a hub on my 1050 about three years ago using a similar method and the ear broke off again this winter one morning while I was blowing snow - wondered why the tractor quit moving as the pin had slid sideways into the free wheeling mode.  The reason I think the ear broke was the pin on mine was a little loose in the outside hole next to the wheel hub and worked sideways against the inner ear hole every time I backed up or went ahead causing undue stress on the ear where it had been welded on. 
 


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#77 Warmsteel OFFLINE  

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Posted February 11, 2018 - 03:20 PM

Thanks for your warning Stew, it hadn't occurred to me that the repair could break as you described.

 

Got the drive collar welded and then filed down some of the larger welds but I have left some of the weld protruding in the hopes that it would provide added strength and prevent a break as 29 Chev described in the previous post.

 

I moved on to cleaning out the hole, again using a file, but remembering 29 Chev's advice and allowed some extra space for the pin and the result is as per the photo, which I am pleased with.

 

Once it is painted it should look almost original?

 

Hopefully this thread will be helpful to someone particularly if they have a 800 and also provides interesting reading for others?

 

John 

Isle of Man

Attached Thumbnails

  • Just welded 01.jpg
  • filed.jpg
  • Fits.jpg

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#78 Bolens800uk OFFLINE  

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Posted February 11, 2018 - 03:42 PM

Nice job John. My 850 has that issue and your posts has been instructive.

#79 Warmsteel OFFLINE  

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Posted February 11, 2018 - 03:55 PM

Searching around I found a suppler ((Custom Brakes and Hydraulics LTD) (http://custombrakes.co.uk/ ) here in the U.K. that would provide the clutch liners at a very reasonable price and in a timely manner. 

 

They were most helpful and took the time to speak with me, all in all 4 days from my initial inquiry to see if they could supply the liners to actually receiving the liners so I highly recommend them. As can be seen by their website they do all brakes and clutches so for the chaps in the U.K. give them a shout. (if it is inappropriate for me to mention suppliers in the U.K I apolagise and please remove if required).

 

With the liners in hand and following the instructions from the suppliers (which is the same as it was in 1963) the darker side had the heat activated glue which was offered up to the pulley on both sides and then clamped in a long bolt, tightened to as tight as I could get it (to apply pressure) and placed in a preheated oven at 195 C (fan assisted oven) or 205 c for 1 hour. Make sure SWMBO is out of the house and does not know what you are doing or you will be  :shoot2:

 

With time to cool down, I tapped over the friction surfaces on each disc and began applying paint with 3 coats of etch primer and 3 coats of gold, so far so good. I just hope that I have done it correctly and the liners don't come away from the pulley when in use?

 

Once the paint has hardened the entire clutch will be assembled and that will be another sub assembly done.

 

John

 

Isle of Man

Attached Thumbnails

  • Clutch discs.jpg
  • clutch 01.jpg
  • clutch 02.jpg
  • clutch 01.jpg
  • clutch 01a.jpg
  • clutch 02.jpg
  • clutch 02a.jpg
  • clutch 03.jpg

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#80 KennyP ONLINE  

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Posted February 11, 2018 - 04:23 PM

Glad you found the clutch liners! Links of that sort are allowed and welcomed. I'm sure someone over there will be looking for some of those before long!


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#81 Warmsteel OFFLINE  

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Posted February 11, 2018 - 05:07 PM

Somehow I seem to have done far more in the last few days than I seem to have done in the last few weeks with all of the completed tasks, which I am really pleased with.

 

As I had removed the drive collar I was able to move onto the gearbox and I removed the brake drum which needs a little welding or turning a little smaller to correct some pitting. The drive coupling was also removed with a little difficulty and now I know why.

 

At first the coupling would not slide off the input shaft but this didn't make sense as I could feel side to side movement without the input shaft Turning.

 

Whilst trying to work out what was going on (the manuals didn't provide and answer other than just a key way) as I was moving or rotating the coupling, the coupling popped off seemingly never having been attached.

 

On closer inspection I determined the real reason for my initial difficulty's. Looking closely at the key way on both the coupling and the input shaft, then looking at the key (placed on top of the input shaft). All 3 parts are badly worn and it appears that the key may have been rocking inside the key ways wearing away material until it is just about 1/4 wide. I can still see the original 3/8 size where the key was not rocking.

 

Looking for a solution I think I have 2 options, the first is to weld up the key ways and then file back to 3/8 or to simply open the key ways up to 1/4 and use a 1/4 key instead?

 

I am leaning towards opening the key ways to 1/4 with a file but I would like to know what the rest of you think or if you have other suggestions, I would like to hear those as well.

 

John

 

Isle of Man

Attached Thumbnails

  • Worn coupler Keyway 01.jpg
  • Worn Keyway 02.jpg
  • Worn Keyway 03.jpg
  • Worn coupler Keyway 02.jpg
  • Worn Keyway 01.jpg

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#82 Warmsteel OFFLINE  

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Posted February 11, 2018 - 05:13 PM

Thank you Kenny P, I will keep that in mind as I find new suppliers here in the U.K.

 

However I must apologise to the States suppliers but I just couldn't justify the cost of postage, not the suppliers fault but still and extra cost.

 

John

Isle of Man


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#83 KennyP ONLINE  

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Posted February 11, 2018 - 05:20 PM

I think the folks will understand!  Shipping 'across the pond' can get expensive! I doubt anyone over here would buy there because of that!


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#84 29 Chev ONLINE  

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Posted February 11, 2018 - 06:12 PM

The drive coupling was also removed with a little difficulty and now I know why.

 

At first the coupling would not slide off the input shaft but this didn't make sense as I could feel side to side movement without the input shaft Turning.

 

Whilst trying to work out what was going on (the manuals didn't provide and answer other than just a key way) as I was moving or rotating the coupling, the coupling popped off seemingly never having been attached.

 

On closer inspection I determined the real reason for my initial difficulty's. Looking closely at the key way on both the coupling and the input shaft, then looking at the key (placed on top of the input shaft). All 3 parts are badly worn and it appears that the key may have been rocking inside the key ways wearing away material until it is just about 1/4 wide. I can still see the original 3/8 size where the key was not rocking.

 

Looking for a solution I think I have 2 options, the first is to weld up the key ways and then file back to 3/8 or to simply open the key ways up to 1/4 and use a 1/4 key instead?

 

I am leaning towards opening the key ways to 1/4 with a file but I would like to know what the rest of you think or if you have other suggestions, I would like to hear those as well.

 

John

 

Isle of Man

 

You state the key and keyway originally were 3/8" which sounds large - I am thinking they were probably 3/16" originally.

 

I would suggest welding up the keyway in the input shaft and then cleaning the weld up with a file or cut off blade for a die grinder chucked in an electric drill and making the keyway the same as the original size (which I believe was 3/16").  Then get a machine shop to cut a new keyway in the coupler at a different spot and install a new key.  The reason I suggest going back to the original size is that trying to square up the keyway in the coupler is going to be difficult using a file.  Taking the keyway out to 1/4" will probably result in the keyway being off centre in relation to the shaft and as a result the key itself will probably never be a nice snug fit in which case it will probably continue to wear the key and keyways.  The Six speed tube frames used a multiple splined input shaft (such as on my 1050) to get more surface area contact and they have been known to wear as well as per the attached pictures.  I repaired the splines on the input shaft by welding a small bead of weld in the worn areas of the splines and then using a 3/8" drill with a small cut off blade and arbor for a die grinder chucked in the drill chuck to clean up the welds.  The reason I used the electric drill was it let me control the speed of the cut off blade so that I only removed a small amount of material from the groove where it was welded.  Takes a little longer using the drill but it worked nice for me.  You will probably have to remove the input shaft from the transmission to clean up the keyway using the cut off blade.

 

I would also suggest you check to make sure the coupling is still a snug fit on the shaft because if it wobbles too much you may still have problems with the key working sideways in the future.  Another option for the coupler would be to get a weld in hub for a gear or pulley the correct size to fit the input shaft and weld a flat piece of steel to it and drill new bolt holes for the drive disk to bolt to.  You might have to get the weld in hub turned down in a lathe so it will fit for this application as they can be bulky on the of and length.  The weld in hub will probably have a set screw but do not use the set screw as the coupler should just slide on the input shaft.

 

These are just suggestions for you to consider - hope they make sense to you.

Attached Thumbnails

  • 1 Worn Splines On Input Shaft.jpg
  • 2 Splines Welded And Splines Cleaned Up With Small Cut Off Blade.jpg

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#85 Warmsteel OFFLINE  

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Posted February 12, 2018 - 03:27 PM

You state the key and keyway originally were 3/8" which sounds large - I am thinking they were probably 3/16" originally.

 

Stew you are absolutely correct, my mistake. I knew it was 3/something?

 

You certainly have given me something to think about and I am still undecided as what to do. I have even thought of making my own broach but that would be to easy!

 

John

Isle of Man


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#86 Warmsteel OFFLINE  

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Posted February 12, 2018 - 03:31 PM

With most of the bits removed, apart from the gear selector connectors, I have begun wire brushing the gearbox back to bare metal and I have come across a number M-65, would anyone know what this number means?

 

The gearbox is upside down in the pictures just in case anyone is wondering?

 

I just hope that the gear selector connector are not as difficult to get off as was the drive c

 

John

Isle of Man

Attached Thumbnails

  • Gearbox clean 01.jpg
  • Gearbox clean 02.jpg
  • Gearbox number.jpg

Edited by Warmsteel, February 12, 2018 - 03:35 PM.

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#87 Corvairguy OFFLINE  

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Posted February 13, 2018 - 12:32 PM

Regarding the "M-65" you found cast into the gearcase: that appears to be the casting date.

 

At the GM foundries, with which I am familiar, tags are included in the mold and changed daily or at most monthly.

 

Decoding: The format varies from one foundry to another but  at GM foundries, the month is represented by a letter: (A=January and "I" is often skipped so "M"  usually means December).  What follows is either the day and last digit of the year or just the year.

 

So the two alternative decodes for M-65 would be December 6, 19x5 or simply December 1965.

 

We would have to look at other casting date examples to really know if the "6" represents a day or is simply part of the year ("65").

 

If another example showed three digits (i.e. M 205, December 20, 19x5), that would tell us Bolens included the casting day. If all other examples show an obvious year, i.e. M64 M65, M66, that would point to a simpler month and year format.


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#88 Warmsteel OFFLINE  

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Posted February 13, 2018 - 03:37 PM

Now that is a very interesting possibility Corvairguy and it sort of tallys with a suspicion I have had.

 

My 800 is supposed to be a 63 800 (186-01 or 187-01) and even the engine serial number comes up as 63 however looking at the 186-01 parts manual it shows the drive shaft (#39).

Similarly the 900 (188-01 & 02) parts manual shows the drive shaft (#39) but this time part #40 is included where as for the 186-01 the part #40 isn't included.

 

Now, my gearbox is the same as the 900 gear box with part #40 "drive pin" installed in the drive shaft and I am wondering if anyone has parts manuals for the 64 and 65 800's as it would be very interesting to see when the "drive pin" was first used.

 

I am beginning to wonder if the gearbox is a replacement of a latter year but the front is the original 1963 800.

 

So, if anyone has the parts manuals for the 64 and 65 800's please let me know.

 

John

Isle of Man

Attached Thumbnails

  • 187-01 parts.jpg
  • 188-01 parts.jpg

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#89 Warmsteel OFFLINE  

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Posted February 13, 2018 - 03:59 PM

Since today was a relatively dry day I cleaned the inside and out side with copious amounts of de-greaser in preparation for paint.

 

The inside was covered with a thick treacle sticky substance no doubt from the oil which I removed and all in all the gearbox seems to be in good health, I hope.

 

The out side was de-greased then received its first of 3 coats of etch primer then 3 coats of gold, I may have a rolling chassis by the weekend?

 

John

Isle of Man

Attached Thumbnails

  • First coat prim 01.jpg
  • First coat prim 02.jpg

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#90 Warmsteel OFFLINE  

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Posted February 19, 2018 - 03:42 PM

With all the damp weather we have been having lately, I managed to get the gearbox painted gold but taking a photo at night does not do it justice, hopefully there will be some sunny weather soon.

 

John

Isle of Man

Attached Thumbnails

  • Gearbox painted 01.jpg
  • Gearbox painted 02.jpg
  • Gearbox painted 03.jpg

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