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John Deere 445 hunting idle HELP


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#1 quinaultkenai OFFLINE  

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Posted July 12, 2017 - 11:11 PM

This spring i bought what I thought was a decent Garden tractor at a good price. 2000 JD 445, has 2100 hours came with a cab and the spare engine. Bought it with a governor that was "out of adjustment". If I pushed up the throttle it would spin up until it floated the valves, governor was not working. After a little headache and some research I thought that the governor and flyweights had failed inside the crankcase and having no real history on this engine figured I'd yank it and replace the governor, oil and water pump.  After opening up the case I found a pristine governor, completely intact and functioning. I was already in there with parts on the bench, I swapped it all out anyway! Now I need to find out why the governor wasn't working. BTW this is the only governed engine I have any experience with.

 

Thru the initial headache and research I did try to adjust the governor. This is where it gets tricky. The guy I bought it from made mention of swapping the engines. I ASSumed that a FD620D is a FD620D, maybe not the case. What was happening was the gov. rod was spinning in the gov arm. It appears that the original JD engine has a larger 1/4 to 5/16"gov rod with a machined flat that the gov arm grabs to help keep the arm and rod locked together. The engine that is now in the tractor has a smaller maybe 1/8-3/16" gov rod that is perfectly round. I have "clearanced" the gov arm and cranked it down TIGHT to the gov rod. With the gov spring that came on the tractor it strips/spins until the governor has no authority to slow the engine and it will rev until the valves float. To combat that I bought from ebay a 425 gov arm and spring (couldn't find one for a 445). After installing the 425 gov arm and spring now the idle hunts or bounces from max rev assuming 3500 to idle. Thinking that the internal governor is identical in both the 425 and 445 I have chased my tail in a complete circle.

 

I have serviced and eliminated the following: short fuel line in the tank (replaced), fuel press 28psi, pulled heads after failed compression check and did a basic valve job and it now has about 175psi on one side and 170 on the other, sprayed a who can of starting fluid around checking for vacuum leaks.

 

 

The whole governor assembly I think has been monkeyed with and the factory 445 governor springs are not available. The spare engine has a had the starter motor mounting ears broken off, I would just swap it in if it were usable.

 

 

I'm hoping a member here has at least a picture of a functioning 445 governor arm and spring. I think I have a good (spring that came on the tractor) governor spring but it is too stiff for the smaller round gov rod??

 

I have a suspicion that the injected 445 needs the stiffer spring and the card engines can use the smaller springs??

 

Any advice or pics would be great.

 

Mike

Sorry for the poor intro.  



#2 MolonLabe ONLINE  

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Posted July 13, 2017 - 05:12 AM

I have no experience with your particular engine but have worked on Kohler and Tecumseh governors most of my life. The max rpm on those engines is determined by a throttle stop, not the governor. The governor's job is to maintain a set rpm under varying loads. If you have a service manual see if it shows a throttle stop setting procedure. Once that is set you can adjust the governor.

 

Edit: Just found the procedure to set what they call "fast idle setting" for 3600 rpm. It's under section 2-10 page 27 of the FD620D service manual. Once that is set you should be able to adjust the governor.



#3 WNYTractorTinkerer ONLINE  

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Posted July 13, 2017 - 05:19 AM

Sounds like the governor was set up wrong..

 

Check the Service manual on how to do it..



#4 quinaultkenai OFFLINE  

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Posted July 13, 2017 - 06:37 PM

Will look into it tonight as i haven't looked into that adjustment.

Wonder if that could make it surge?

#5 quinaultkenai OFFLINE  

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Posted July 13, 2017 - 11:50 PM

Looked at the idle speed adjustment,i believe its for carb engines. The governor plate does have slotted holes that allow the low idle adjustment, easy to do.

#6 quinaultkenai OFFLINE  

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Posted July 14, 2017 - 08:31 AM

Still hoping someone can snap a pic of their governor spring and arm setup installed and functional. The diagrams in the service manuals i believe are for the 425 or earlier 445s maybe?

#7 quinaultkenai OFFLINE  

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Posted July 14, 2017 - 08:35 AM

Here is a pic of the 2 setups. One on the left is 425 and right is my 445??

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#8 secondtry OFFLINE  

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Posted July 14, 2017 - 09:24 AM

  If the engine will start and idle properly remove the spring from the governor arm. Now use a finger to push the governor arm towards wide open throttle. With the engine running you should feel the governor pushing back. If you don't feel it pushing back the governor is not functioning. If it is pushing back that pressure is what the spring has to over come to increase engine rpm. It is a balance between the spring and governor. I don't know your particular engine so I can only say "careful of moving parts, many can remove fingers"  Don  



#9 quinaultkenai OFFLINE  

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Posted July 14, 2017 - 02:00 PM

Thank you for the response Don. I have confirmed the gov is functioning with basically what you have suggested.

What I'm trying to get is something to compare my gov spring to.

#10 quinaultkenai OFFLINE  

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Posted July 14, 2017 - 02:00 PM

Thank you for the response Don. I have confirmed the gov is functioning with basically what you have suggested.

What I'm trying to get is something to compare my gov spring to.

#11 mtoney OFFLINE  

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Posted July 15, 2017 - 08:40 AM

I have the Kawasaki service manual for this engine if you need scans of the procedure to set the RPM's.   Your target RPM is 3600 + or - 50 RPM  WITH, repeat, WITH the mower deck engaged.   It will over speed just a bit when the PTO is disengaged but this is how we set up the engine RPM's at every shop I have ever worked at and in small engine school.   Many newer V twins loose a boat load of thier torque much below 3550 rpm.  The also can overheat if working under load, such as mowing, if not turning the full 3600 RPM.   This is why your told on every newer lawn and garden tractor to use full throttle when mowing or doing other work.  lower RPM is fine for cruising around the yard and such.  Older engines, like the cast iron Kohlers could tollerate less RPM while working much better and thier torque curve was much more broad than todays engines.   Get yourself one of the little electronic tach's and use it to set your RPM's    If you need scans from my service manuals, let me know.   Many times an engine will hunt, not for a gov problem, but the engine is running lean due to a dirty carb.  You will fight with the gov and never get it to be set right if your fighting a dirty carb that is causing a lean fuel condition.  I would also recommend cleaning the carb while your doing this work.    Mike


Edited by mtoney, July 15, 2017 - 08:42 AM.


#12 quinaultkenai OFFLINE  

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Posted July 15, 2017 - 02:24 PM

The 445 is a fuel injected engine. The rpm procedure is for the carb engines. I have the service manual for both the fd620d and the 445.
I need a picture or a governor spring for a 445!




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