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Sears single vs twin cylinder frame length differences


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#1 rewilfert OFFLINE  

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Posted June 24, 2017 - 02:09 PM

Does anyone know if the front frame sections are longer on the twin cylinder tractors vs the single cylinder versions?  Are there any differences in the front grills or is it just the hood and frame section that the engine mounts on?

 


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#2 MH81 OFFLINE  

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Posted June 24, 2017 - 03:47 PM

Never measured one, but I believe they're the same sans mounting holes and configuration
The Onan engines needed mount tabs just outside the frame width, so those were provided
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#3 rewilfert OFFLINE  

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Posted June 24, 2017 - 05:10 PM

I thought they were the same length and then I ran across this information that suggests that they are different. If I had access to a twin cylinder tractor, I'd measure the hood to see if it is longer.

http://www.mytractor...s/215212?page=1

#4 KennyP ONLINE  

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Posted June 24, 2017 - 05:40 PM

You must be talking about the 70'S era tractors. Kinda hard to tell from the original post!



#5 EricFromPa ONLINE  

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Posted June 24, 2017 - 06:56 PM

Frames are the same length but the Hood is not. The Grill attaches differently. It's about 2-2 1/2 inches forward and 1" - 1 1/2" higher. Also you'll need to weld tabs onto the frame for the engine bolts on the Flywheel side.

 

Tabs

034_zpsdifzuoer.jpg

 

Tecumseh single cylinder powered ST16 grill bolts directly to the frame.

msg-802-0-15873900-1353285598.jpg

 

Onan Twin cylinder powered SS16 grill bolts out front and above of the frame. Same grill does have a longer hood.

6sxlwi.jpg


Edited by EricFromPa, June 24, 2017 - 06:56 PM.

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#6 Tecumseh power OFFLINE  

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Posted June 24, 2017 - 08:11 PM

Also need different dash tower the clutch is different.
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#7 rewilfert OFFLINE  

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Posted June 24, 2017 - 08:47 PM

Yes, I should have mentioned that I'm looking at the mid 1970's model tractors.  I have a ST12 and I'm trying to compare construction to the twin cylinder tractors.

 

I found a SS16 owner's manual it it shows a bracket on the front that spaces the lower grill up and out, just as EricFromPA describes (and can be seen in his first picture).  This explains the longer hood.

 

35128042920_6008c17e1d_b.jpgFullSizeRender by rewilfert, on Flickr

 

It seems to follow that the dash panel would need to be taller to accommodate the taller grill.  I have seen pictures of the clutch arrangement and it appears that the clutch is further away from the engine when compared to my ST12.  I also see that the clutch is mounted to the bottom of the battery tray vs the right side frame panel.

 

Thank you for all the input, everything is making more sense now.



#8 EricFromPa ONLINE  

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Posted June 24, 2017 - 09:01 PM

Yep clutch mechanism is bolted to the back side of block above the starter on the Tecumseh powered ones.And the Onan and Briggs powered Mechanism is welded fast to the bottom of the battery box. 



#9 rewilfert OFFLINE  

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Posted June 24, 2017 - 10:36 PM

On my ST12 with a Tecumseh HH120, the clutch mounts to the right side of the frame as shown here:

 

35384920801_9f8f0a73e6_b.jpgUntitled by rewilfert, on Flickr

 

I've seen on the earlier models of Sears tractors where they are bolted straight to the engine near the starter.  It seems that on the twin cylinder models, the clutch need to be be further away from the PTO shaft and they moved the mount to the bottom of the battery box.



#10 Tecumseh power OFFLINE  

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Posted June 25, 2017 - 08:37 AM

It's not bolted on the block on the 70s Tecumseh ones but it is in a different spot on the dash tower. I have both I can measure the height of the dash if you want but I think they are the Same height. Eric is correct but it's the older ones from the 60s that are bolted to the block

Edited by Tecumseh power, June 25, 2017 - 08:37 AM.

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#11 Tecumseh power OFFLINE  

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Posted June 25, 2017 - 08:38 AM

You could probably fab your dash tower to work for the clutch though

#12 rewilfert OFFLINE  

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Posted June 25, 2017 - 10:16 AM

It's not bolted on the block on the 70s Tecumseh ones but it is in a different spot on the dash tower. I have both I can measure the height of the dash if you want but I think they are the Same height. Eric is correct but it's the older ones from the 60s that are bolted to the block

 

 

If you can measure the dash heights, that would be very helpful.  If you could also measure the hood lengths that would confirm that difference as well.  

 

I'm looking at replacing my 1976 ST12 HH120 with a new V twin engine and I need to understand all my options for creating more room using factory parts, if it becomes necessary.  If the dashes and grill are the same and only the hood is longer, then I'd just need to source a new hood and space my grill out a bit to accommodate it if I need more longitudinal engine room.

 

If I have to change to the battery box mounted clutch, I think I'd be able to just find the corresponding parts and sweep them over.



#13 MNGB ONLINE  

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Posted June 25, 2017 - 10:28 AM

Hi it can be done, I converted a ST16 to a B&S 16 opposed twin, I used the same dash tower, but required a fair amount of fabricating of clutch assy a new battery tray, the hood was extended 2" and raised 1" it turned out good and I use the tractor for mowing and am very happy with the B&S. I'll follow your project as I have a 75 SS16 with an Onan I dislike and when I my arthritis can be controlled so i can work again will be installing a B&S twin V 16 hp in that tractor.

 

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Edited by MNGB, June 25, 2017 - 10:31 AM.

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#14 secondtry OFFLINE  

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Posted June 25, 2017 - 10:38 AM

Hi it can be done, I converted a ST16 to a B&S 16 opposed twin, I used the same dash tower, but required a fair amount of fabricating of clutch assy a new battery tray, the hood was extended 2" and raised 1" it turned out good and I use the tractor for mowing and am very happy with the B&S. I'll follow your project as I have a 75 SS16 with an Onan I dislike and when I my arthritis can be controlled so i can work again will be installing a B&S twin V 16 hp in that tractor.

 

attachicon.gif100_0250.JPGattachicon.gif100_0261.JPGattachicon.gif100_0274.JPGattachicon.gif100_0274.JPGattachicon.gif100_0276.JPGattachicon.gif100_0285.JPGattachicon.gif100_0298.JPGattachicon.gif100_0302.JPG

Impressive work Don



#15 rewilfert OFFLINE  

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Posted June 25, 2017 - 01:40 PM

Hi it can be done, I converted a ST16 to a B&S 16 opposed twin, I used the same dash tower, but required a fair amount of fabricating of clutch assy a new battery tray, the hood was extended 2" and raised 1" it turned out good and I use the tractor for mowing and am very happy with the B&S. I'll follow your project as I have a 75 SS16 with an Onan I dislike and when I my arthritis can be controlled so i can work again will be installing a B&S twin V 16 hp in that tractor.

 

Very nice work there.  I need to confirm a few measurements when I get back home, but I think the Honda GX690 I am looking at will just fit.  I know the height is fine and side to side width should be ok.  The engine is about 16" long (perpendicular to crank) and that is right about what I had quickly measured as available space between firewall and grill.  I just need to see where that puts the new PTO shaft in relation to its current position.  I'm planning to use the Honda muffler and it is quite large.  It will require cutting most of the right side of the hood away and possibly some of the grill.  If I can get the new PTO shaft in about the same place as the original, I *should* be able to reuse the original clutch assembly.  If it comes to spacing out the grill to make more room, I may just replace the hood with one from a twin cylinder.






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