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Wide base Kohler k341 16 hp motor modifcation for Cub frame

cub 16 hp kohler k341

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#1 Mark 149 J. ONLINE  

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Posted June 12, 2017 - 10:25 PM

I bought this Kohler K341 16 hp the other day to install in my Cub 149.  The Cub currently has a K301 12 hp because the original K321 14 hp needs a lot of machine work before it can run again.  The modification for the 16 hp can mostly be done by myself other then the turning of the crank which I have a friend who can do this for me.  These modifications will be considerably less expensive then rebuilding the 14 hp motor while giving the benefit of a more powerful motor.

20170612_190819.jpg 20170612_190819_LI.jpg 20170612_190420.jpg 20170612_190420_LI.jpg 20170611_215340.jpg 20170612_191346.jpg

The gray line indicates the material that will need to be removed from the engine block. 

 

What would need to be done to a wide base Kohler K341  to make it fit between a Cub Cadet 149 frame. 

1.  Cutting off the wide base tabs from the engine block. 

2.  Tap the factory holes in the blocl for the Cub oil pan.

3.  Modify the fan shroud by removing the start bump out.  This needs to be done to also fit between the frame.

4.  Have the pto end of the crankshaft turned down for the starter/generator pulley.


Edited by Mark 149 J., June 13, 2017 - 09:35 AM.

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#2 EricFromPa OFFLINE  

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Posted June 12, 2017 - 11:58 PM

Find yourself an engine out of a cub cadet 1650 and use the narrower bearing plate,flywheel,blower housing,Oil Pan and PTO off of it. Doesn't matter if the engine is blown up as long as it has the parts you need.

 

1650 has the same frame as your 149.


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#3 dodge trucker OFFLINE  

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Posted June 13, 2017 - 06:17 AM

Umm yeah/ good luck with that.... been looking myself, I might be sending a 1650 "roller" down the road for what a K341 with a narrow base pan is going for these days...  blown up basketcase or supposedly running, unknown-hour/unknown maint. history engine!

and Mark... pull the pan off of your 16hp it may be drilled and tapped already... if not, to do the machine work needed both on the crank and on the block the engine will need to come all the way apart if only to clean the shavings out..... so then it will wind up cheaper to rebuild your 14hp.


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#4 boyscout862 ONLINE  

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Posted June 13, 2017 - 08:59 AM

Extensive modifications that you are proposing, are risky. I've seen too many times when these go wrong. Keep the 16 hp as is. Rebuild the 14 hp. If you can do the maintenance on the 16 and get it going, then you could sell it to pay for fixing the 14hp. I occassionally see Kohlers out of Cubs for sale. I bought a 12 hp with rebuilding kit, new carb, and dissassembled to inspect crank for $50. I passed on a 16 hp for $100 because I didn't need it (and am out of room). I've picked up 3 free Tecumsehs this year and several old Briggs cast iron. These are now blocking my garage until I can find room.

 

My point is that there are plenty of engines available out there if you look for them. I hope that you find what you need soon. Good Luck, Rick


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#5 Mark 149 J. ONLINE  

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Posted June 13, 2017 - 09:56 AM

Thanks for the suggestions. 

 

This is the first Kohler K341 that I've come across over the last 2 years.  I won't be able to start on this project for several more weeks.  I will have to think about this some more. 


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#6 Trav1s OFFLINE  

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Posted June 13, 2017 - 10:06 AM

Ok, I would not call that the wide base block.  I would call that the narrow base with ears.  The Cub wide block is definitely different.   Here are pics that I have found to illustrate the point.  

The first one is three different blocks that I have. Black block on the left is the narrow without ears (came out of JD 140, the middle block is the NOS narrow block I got off of eBay, and the right block is the narrow block with tabs from JD 312) 

My pics are here ---->    http://gardentractor...7-312/?p=546374

 

The attached pic shows the difference between the narrow block with tabs and the wide block used in cubs.  The difference in width is in the side that is parallel with the crankshaft.  

 

 

As for cutting the ears off - it has been done on numerous occasions but I would NOT do it.

Attached Thumbnails

  • K series.jpg

Edited by Trav1s, June 13, 2017 - 10:07 AM.

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#7 EricFromPa OFFLINE  

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Posted June 13, 2017 - 03:52 PM

See if this guy will ship.

$250 for a complete engine with PTO. Seems to be alot more Cubs out near the east coast. Stuff like this pops up for sale pretty regularly around here.

 

https://pittsburgh.c...6174813717.html


Edited by EricFromPa, June 13, 2017 - 03:54 PM.

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#8 Mark 149 J. ONLINE  

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Posted June 13, 2017 - 04:24 PM

See if this guy will ship.

$250 for a complete engine with PTO. Seems to be alot more Cubs out near the east coast. Stuff like this pops up for sale pretty regularly around here.

 

https://pittsburgh.c...6174813717.html

Thanks for pointing me in the direction of this motor.  I sent him a text so I will wait and see what he has to say.


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#9 dodge trucker OFFLINE  

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Posted June 13, 2017 - 05:52 PM

I had a member here that I also see on a Cub cadet site that I go to,  PM me about a guy he knows that had a K341 for sale "with everything needed for a 1650" and wanted a bit more for it.. ... it was also in PA "somewhere"

I have also been contacted by some guy in Cali that supposedly has a 341 from a Cub for $100 more "plus shipping"... used, supposed to be good running engine. Long distance deals like that scare me w/o someone in the area that I know that could check it out for me 1st//


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#10 dodge trucker OFFLINE  

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Posted June 14, 2017 - 05:54 AM

I bought this Kohler K341 16 hp the other day to install in my Cub 149.  The Cub currently has a K301 12 hp because the original K321 14 hp needs a lot of machine work before it can run again.  The modification for the 16 hp can mostly be done by myself other then the turning of the crank which I have a friend who can do this for me.  These modifications will be considerably less expensive then rebuilding the 14 hp motor while giving the benefit of a more powerful motor.

attachicon.gif20170612_190819.jpgattachicon.gif20170612_190819_LI.jpgattachicon.gif20170612_190420.jpgattachicon.gif20170612_190420_LI.jpgattachicon.gif20170611_215340.jpgattachicon.gif20170612_191346.jpg

The gray line indicates the material that will need to be removed from the engine block. 

 

What would need to be done to a wide base Kohler K341  to make it fit between a Cub Cadet 149 frame. 

1.  Cutting off the wide base tabs from the engine block. 

2.  Tap the factory holes in the blocl for the Cub oil pan.

3.  Modify the fan shroud by removing the start bump out.  This needs to be done to also fit between the frame.

4.  Have the pto end of the crankshaft turned down for the starter/generator pulley.

may not have to cut the tabs. I dont think they would be in the way.

there may not be any holes to tap or even cast-in bosses to drill out for the narrow base some did and some didn't.

why would you have to remove the starter bump out? the149 is the same frame as the 1650 which had a gear reduction starter. unless that engine has the "low mount" version.... If it has the "high mount" it will be above the frame anyways and I think I'd rather have the newer style starter over the starter/gen along with the stator under the flywheel.   you could swap to starter/gen but I wouldn't. IFyou did it would be easier to just use the 14hp's engine shroud and flywheel on the 16.


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#11 Mark 149 J. ONLINE  

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Posted June 14, 2017 - 10:10 AM

may not have to cut the tabs. I dont think they would be in the way.

there may not be any holes to tap or even cast-in bosses to drill out for the narrow base some did and some didn't.

why would you have to remove the starter bump out? the149 is the same frame as the 1650 which had a gear reduction starter. unless that engine has the "low mount" version.... If it has the "high mount" it will be above the frame anyways and I think I'd rather have the newer style starter over the starter/gen along with the stator under the flywheel.   you could swap to starter/gen but I wouldn't. IFyou did it would be easier to just use the 14hp's engine shroud and flywheel on the 16.

This motor is out of a bobcat  not a 1650.  It just so happens to be painted a similar color to the IH yellow.  I haven't measured it yet, but this "narrow block with ears" (according to Trav1s) type block isn't suppose to fit between the frame rails of this style of cub (based upon what I've read)   The starter is a low mounted starter it just looks like it doesn't fit even though I haven't measured it yet.

With any project you won't know for sure until you actually have everything out on the bench so you can do a more thorough job of comparison and measurement.  I'm still a long ways away from that. 



#12 dodge trucker OFFLINE  

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Posted June 14, 2017 - 05:13 PM

no... it won't bolt in with the standard Kohler wide base... but if your block is one of those that is drilled for the narrow pan, you can bolt that on... I don't think those ears will be in the way of anything. but as the engine is now, the bolt pattern of the wide base will not match the bolt pattern on the engine mounting within the tractor. and as your engine is presently set up,, it will sit about an inch higher than it should, putting the driveshaft out of line. If you pull the existing pan off and inspect the bottom of the block you will then know if you can bolt a narrow base pan onto that engine. if so bolt on and GO!  if not it will only set you back the cost of a pan gasket, and the time to pull the 4 bolts holding the pan to the block. pretty cheap investment to find out "if"...  .


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#13 dodge trucker OFFLINE  

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Posted June 14, 2017 - 05:24 PM

I have a Cub 1650 roller that is "on the list" down about #4 (maybe #5"?) to get attended to, I have a 12hp wide base with a replacement short block sitting here that I plan to do the same inspection on to see if it might just work on that Cub....

I am supposed to be getting a 14hp in a few weeks, also wide base....  going to pull the pan and check the same thing on it to see if either are drilled to accept either/or oil pan.... I would love to get that one going because of my 3 Cubs it is the only one with hyd. lift... and I kinda got spoiled with not having to change deck height "armstrong" style on my Ariens/NH machines...

I too have a ways before I can get to that machine, but man, if I were closer I'd be offering to get you out of your "hole" and take that 16 off your hands for what you paid, ha ha ha......

 

looking at Travis' pix it looks like you have a 2-of-3 chance of it already being drilled to accept either pan.


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