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Which diesel do I go with, Yanmar or Petter?


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#1 mtoney OFFLINE  

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Posted June 11, 2017 - 08:11 PM

I have a line on a Petter from the UK that should fit in my short frame Commando 8 Wheelhorse.  I also have a line on a genuine Yanmar out of a Military genset.  Both run fine, the Yanmar is set up for 24vdc on the start and I assume on the intake grid heaters and charging circuit.  Should I change all of that to 12vdc and loose the intake heater, or...I might be able to squeeze a second L&G battery under the seat in the cubby above the transmission.  Then just tap 12vdc off one battery for the factory lights on the tractor.  Or am I better off with a rope start Petter with no electrics to deal with, which to me isnt a problem.  I am just worried about the cost of importing the engine from the uk and probably needing to notch the hood quite a bit on the blower housing side to keep the crankshaft lined up with the mower deck PTO.   I know the Yanmar will fit with little to no hood mods, and the tapered crank is no problem, someone on ebay offers adapters to convert to 1" keyed shaft.  This series of Horse does not use the PTO clutch common to later series Wheelhorses, just a belt tensioner mounted on the right foot rest peg. Mike



#2 Cvans OFFLINE  

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Posted June 11, 2017 - 09:44 PM

Going by what you have said the Yanmar would be my first choice if it is electric start. Today rope starting a diesel might seem OK but tomorrow that option might not be viable for several reasons. 


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#3 secondtry OFFLINE  

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Posted June 11, 2017 - 10:10 PM

   Check carefully the law concerning the import engine. If it is not certified by the EPA it may be impossible. Don 


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#4 mtoney OFFLINE  

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Posted June 11, 2017 - 10:12 PM

Very true Chris, and that is my thought as well.   Would you add a second battery and retain the intake grid heaters, or do away with them and replace the starter with a 12vt model?  The engine lacks any type of charging system, but for the couple seconds of cranking, a simple float charger at home will be fine.  The Yanmar has rope/recoil unit for back up.  I would change the factory headlights and tail light to LED bulbs.  So little to no drain from them.  The little xenon strobe only gets slight use when I plow snow.   So that said, what are you thoughts on the battery set up?   Mike



#5 mtoney OFFLINE  

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Posted June 11, 2017 - 10:13 PM

Don, its old enough that it predates the emissions issues, so no issues there, but there is the added cost to get it here.  Leaning towards getting the Yanmar as its already state side and has a few other features to it.   


Edited by mtoney, June 11, 2017 - 10:13 PM.


#6 mtoney OFFLINE  

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Posted June 11, 2017 - 10:55 PM

I went ahead and ordered the engine and taper shaft to keyed shaft adapter.  Will decide on the battery once the engine is on hand,  I want to see if the extended airfilter set up due to the intake heaters helps with hood clearance or makes it worse.  As if I keep the 24vdc set up and add a second battery, I can have preheat for winter start ups.  The 12vdc starter is $65 on ebay, I will see what a second battery and cables ect will cost me tomorrow.  Cant do much of anything till grass slows down unless the Kohler goes totally up first.  The old Horse is cutting 4-6 yards a week right now.  I have a few that are weekly, and 2 that are bi weekly.  Pics coming once I start the conversion process, should only take me a day or so.  I already started soaking the tripple cast pulley on the Kohler with PB blaster and set my 3 jaw puller out.  I also located my bolt on exhaust flange with a piece of 1" pipe nipple welded to it.  Probably just going to run the old factory nelson pepper pot off the Kohler at first.  Will get a better set up once I see what kind of space I have(no stacks).  I will be reusing the stock Wheelhorse tank, so a return line fitting will have to be installed on the tank for the return off the injector.      Mike


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#7 boyscout862 ONLINE  

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Posted June 12, 2017 - 07:37 AM

What about rigging up an old fashioned starter/generator setup on it? Good Luck, Rick



#8 mtoney OFFLINE  

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Posted June 12, 2017 - 07:41 AM

The Yanmar just needs a easy swap out to a 12vt starter if I choose that route over doing a military style 24vt system on it.  The Military GM diesel blazers/CK trucks use 24vt for starting and 12vdc for everything else including lights.  Just means I have to disconnect the second battery and charge them seperatly.  It all will depend on how well the extended intake assembly fits with the hood, if its better without the intake heater, then I will swap out the starter for a 12vdc model.   Wont know that till the diesel arrives later this week and I start the conversion.    Mike



#9 Cvans OFFLINE  

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Posted June 12, 2017 - 08:09 AM

Personally I'm a believer in glow plugs (intake or otherwise). They can reduce wear on the starter and other electrical components markedly. Taking a little time to use them makes starting a lot easier. Older engines run in cold climates can have the system set up so they can be re-energized after the engine starts to so the engine will smooth out sooner. Don't know if this is recommended or not but it sure seems to help.  



#10 Trav1s OFFLINE  

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Posted June 12, 2017 - 09:34 AM

After reading all of this, I find my self sure in my initial thought of going with the Yanmar.  



#11 mtoney OFFLINE  

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Posted June 12, 2017 - 12:24 PM

Even in warm weather, an indirect injected diesel will either not start or be hard starting when first fired up that day.  Older Kubotas, the GM/Detroit Diesel 6.2/6.5L ect.  The Yanmars are direct injection and will normally start without assistance.  The 4.5hp I put in a Horse a few years ago that now lives up around the Ft Wayne area, would start in single digit temps, but with plenty of smoke and having to keep the starter engaged for nearly 20 seconds.   So, yes, a preheater is better than none.  I have see others take a standard fast glow plug from either a Kubota/Yanmar ect, drill and tap a hole in the intake just behind the air filter and install it there to help preheat the incoming air.  A heavy duty momentary toggle switch or any momentary switch thru a relay to activate the glow plug will work.     Mike


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#12 stiemmy OFFLINE  

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Posted June 12, 2017 - 12:25 PM

Those batteries can be charged through a battery isolator, and used as a 24v system using a start relay. What I would do in your situation is use a GM alternator to charge the batts via the isolator. The rest of the electrics can still be 12v too.

The reason they use 24v is, the current draw from the starter is less.

Edited by stiemmy, June 12, 2017 - 12:25 PM.

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#13 Cvans OFFLINE  

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Posted June 12, 2017 - 01:03 PM

Take a look at how the intake manifold heaters work on the 1980's Yanmar tractors work. The glow plug in the manifold heats a small bi-metal valve. This valve when heated opens and lets a small amount of diesel to drip on the glow element causing the manifold to fill with warm diesel vapor. This vapor is then drawn into the engine when the starter is engaged making combustion much easier. The Fordson Dextas use the same principal but the fuel is manually sprayed through a nozzle onto the element. This is a very effective method of getting a cold diesel to start. When these systems are not functioning properly the machine becomes a whole different beast. 



#14 mtoney OFFLINE  

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Posted June 12, 2017 - 03:40 PM

Thats for sure Chris.  I had a green Yanmar YM135 SCUT and fond its cold start set up was DOA the first winter we had it.  Took running a air dryer on high power right into the intake to get the old girl started.  But once I fixed the cold start system, it worked like a charm.   The intake heaters on the little engine I am getting are more like whats on a Dodge Ram with the Cummins.  A pair of toaster wire elements across the incoming air stream to preheat it.  The Generator these engines were in, were designed to be air dropped into any location in the world and be able to start.  Only needing oil in the engine and a supply of diesel fuel or JP8 to run.   You can see the gen set these come from on youtube.  Some get parted out and parts sold seperatly, others get sold as a functional generator.  I guess they are real popular with the "preper" crowd that are preparing for the worst to happen.    Mike


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#15 mtoney OFFLINE  

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Posted June 13, 2017 - 06:41 PM

For those looking for an air cooled diesel, A couple places have these ex military gen set Yanmars on ebay.  They are roughly 6.5hp or around the torque of a 8-10hp gas engine.  They have 24vt starters and double intake grid heaters. A 12vt starter is easily gotten from the same auction site, as well as a tapered shaft to 1 or 1 1/8th inch keyed shaft.   These are selling in the 300-350 range for the engine, super cheap for a genunie Yanmar instead of a clone.  You can see one run on youtube, just search Yanmar L70AE.   I will get video of mine running once installed in my Wheelhorse.   Should be a good engine to repower smaller HP Cub Cadets, Wheelhorses, Sears Surburbans ect.    Mike


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