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Honda Motor Cylinder Wall


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#1 johndeereelfman OFFLINE  

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Posted May 14, 2017 - 06:00 PM

My Dad bought me a 3,000 psi pressure washer at an auction for $25.00 however the engine seemed to be stuck. Today after pulling the pump off, the head, and the engine block side, I found that this motor must have been sitting awhile with water trapped in it on top of the piston. After soaking the cylinder and piston with Marvel Mystery Oil for two weeks, I finally got the piston to break loose. However, due to the rust ring, I can only get the piston to travel about 3/4 of it's full travel. My question is, can I just remove the rust ring and hope that I can get full travel in the piston without any issues, or will removing the rust ring eventually cause damage to the piston rings and cause possible internal damage down the road?

 

If the rust can be safely removed, what are the recommendations that I should use in removing it? The rust ring build up is thick enough to actually stop the top of the piston, not just the rings. So keep that in mind when giving your thoughts or ideas.

 

I appreciate the help.  Here are some pictures if it will help in determining how bad or how minimal the rust ring is:

 

IMG_20170514_190357290_HDR.jpg IMG_20170514_190410476_HDR.jpg

IMG_20170514_190423659_HDR.jpg

 

 

The internals:

IMG_20170514_190449630.jpg

 

 

The Valve Springs and Rockers:

IMG_20170514_190504326_HDR.jpg

 

 

The Head and Valve Tops:

IMG_20170514_190516822_HDR.jpg

 

 

 


Edited by johndeereelfman, May 14, 2017 - 06:34 PM.

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#2 EricFromPa ONLINE  

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Posted May 14, 2017 - 06:09 PM

Just hone it a bit with the piston down the whole way or use sand paper and spray it down with brake clean and throw it back together.Change the oil and fire it up.It will smoke for a bit but should clear up once the rings seat again.As long as you get the ring smoothed out good you'll be ok.

 

I've used a small wire wheel to take the big stuff off and sand paper to take the rest of the rust off and they were all ok. Last one I did was on an old stuck 2hp clinton engine and it's still running fine. Doesn't smoke at all. As long as there isn't much rust pitting you'll be good to go.

 

Only had 1 that I had to pull apart and hone and that one was seized real good and had some light pitting but honing took most of it out.I did have to put rings in that one.It was an old Briggs model N.


Edited by EricFromPa, May 14, 2017 - 06:13 PM.

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#3 boyscout862 ONLINE  

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Posted May 14, 2017 - 06:31 PM

I would take the engine apart and hone the cylinder if it is not too bad. You will have to remove the rust before pulling the piston. On older engines you might get away with Eric's way. I've found that there is always abrasives left behind if you leave the piston in. I have also seen where the wrist pin has rusted and needs to be cleanned. Whatever you decide, I hope that it works for you. Good Luck, Rick


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#4 johndeereelfman OFFLINE  

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Posted May 14, 2017 - 06:37 PM

Just hone it a bit with the piston down the whole way or use sand paper and spray it down with brake clean and throw it back together.Change the oil and fire it up.It will smoke for a bit but should clear up once the rings seat again.As long as you get the ring smoothed out good you'll be ok.

 

I've used a small wire wheel to take the big stuff off and sand paper to take the rest of the rust off and they were all ok. Last one I did was on an old stuck 2hp clinton engine and it's still running fine. Doesn't smoke at all. As long as there isn't much rust pitting you'll be good to go.

 

Only had 1 that I had to pull apart and hone and that one was seized real good and had some light pitting but honing took most of it out.I did have to put rings in that one.It was an old Briggs model N.

 

What type and grit of sandpaper do you recommend? Wet/Dry sandpaper? 320, 400, 800 grit? 



#5 johndeereelfman OFFLINE  

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Posted May 14, 2017 - 06:41 PM

I would take the engine apart and hone the cylinder if it is not too bad. You will have to remove the rust before pulling the piston. On older engines you might get away with Eric's way. I've found that there is always abrasives left behind if you leave the piston in. I have also seen where the wrist pin has rusted and needs to be cleanned. Whatever you decide, I hope that it works for you. Good Luck, Rick

 

The insides are really clean other than the oil that was drained out. Very brown and watery. After doing some research, I found that this pressure washer model isn't very old, manufactured within the past five years, so do you still suggest taking it completely apart? I will have to rebuild the carb, as it is full of corrosion as if the gas wasn't treated and the previous owner used ethenol. Parts are still available for this model, so if I do need to rebuild the motor, I can easily find what I'll need. 



#6 boyscout862 ONLINE  

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Posted May 14, 2017 - 06:45 PM

The only way to clean it thoroughly is to take it apart. You may be able to get away with not taking it apart but then you risk a suprise. Its a judgement call. I tend to be extra carefull. Good Luck, Rick


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#7 EricFromPa ONLINE  

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Posted May 14, 2017 - 07:18 PM

I used 100 grit to knock of the rough stuff and emery cloth to smooth it out. Not sure what grit the emery was.I have 1 of those value packs with 10 pre cut sheets of different grits.Pre cut for my sanding block but I've been using it to clean points and what ever else I need to clean light rust and corrosion off of.

 

That bore is alot cleaner than the stuck ones I've cleaned up lol


Edited by EricFromPa, May 14, 2017 - 07:20 PM.


#8 EricR ONLINE  

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Posted May 14, 2017 - 09:03 PM

johndeereelfman , what horse power is that engine, I have a I think 6.6 horse one that the rod locked up on the crank that I would give you if you could use it!!!!


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#9 johndeereelfman OFFLINE  

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Posted May 15, 2017 - 07:11 PM

johndeereelfman , what horse power is that engine, I have a I think 6.6 horse one that the rod locked up on the crank that I would give you if you could use it!!!!

 

This is a 9hp Honda Motor. I bought a honing tool, spring compression tool, and valve seat compound so hopefully I can get things torn apart a little further and clean everything up a little better. Thanks anyway EricR, I appreciate the offer. 


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#10 johndeereelfman OFFLINE  

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Posted May 27, 2017 - 08:46 PM

Well, I finally found some time to get back on this motor. Got the piston removed and cleaned up, the cylinder honed, the valves removed and cleaned, and the head polished. My new carb, engine gasket set, new ring set, valve cover gasket, and coil are supposed to arrive, however with working out of town this week plus the Root's Tractor Show this weekend, I'm not sure when I'll be able to get to assembling this thing back together.

 

 IMG_20170527_115918557.jpg IMG_20170527_115924530.jpg

IMG_20170527_182258497.jpg IMG_20170527_210325510.jpg

IMG_20170527_210337657.jpg IMG_20170527_210345378.jpg



#11 olcowhand ONLINE  

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Posted May 27, 2017 - 09:42 PM

The hone marks appear too straight across the cylinder wall.  There should be an X pattern crosshatch forming 35 to 45 degree angles.  You form the crosshatch by running the hone at a slow rpm while moving the hone up and down in the cylinder to create the crosshatch.  Takes just a little practice to get it right.  Having the pattern too flat can cause excessive ring wear while seating in and excessive oil burning.  Do a search for "honing crosshatch" and you'll understand better.


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#12 Cvans ONLINE  

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Posted May 27, 2017 - 11:21 PM

Good catch Daniel. I was so impressed with how well the cylinder cleaned up that I completely missed the hone marks.


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#13 secondtry ONLINE  

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Posted May 28, 2017 - 12:59 AM

I don't know your experience level but I see no mention of checking the end gap on the piston rings before reassembly. When I hone  or refresh an engine' before I reassemble I put a ring in the cylinder then bump it square with the cylinder with the top of the piston. When I am sure it is square I use feeler gauges to check the end gap. I do this at several places in the cylinder. Excessive variation means the cylinder is tapered or possibly reverse hour glass shaped. To much end gap indicates worn rings, cylinder or both. The specification should be in the rebuild manual and is worth checking. Don   


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#14 dodge trucker ONLINE  

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Posted May 28, 2017 - 11:32 AM

You guys aren't gonna like this. just like the old Dodge vs Ford vs Chevy debate that has been going on forever

but like the old saying goes... "it's a Honda".... which to me, means to "chuck it"....


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#15 Cvans ONLINE  

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Posted May 28, 2017 - 05:34 PM

 like the old saying goes... "it's a Honda".... which to me, means to "chuck it"....

 

 

OK Chucky.  :D

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