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#1 FixItCharlie OFFLINE  

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Posted May 12, 2017 - 10:20 PM

I just made a Manometer & wish I had done it sooner.

 

SUNP0076.JPG

 

My LGT 100 has started smoking & using oil. After removing the head the cylinder looked OK & from the oil on the head & top of the cylinder I began thinking head gasket. The gasket looked ok but checking the head it did not seem flat. Wet sanding the head on a flat surface did seem to help, so a new head gasket & wet sanding the head until it was flat I put it all back together hoping it was repaired. It did run better but was still smoking like a mosquito fogger. So before I tear it completely apart I decide to make a Manometer to check the Kohler engine better. This is what I found. 

 

SUNP0078.JPG

Ready to start the engine.

 

SUNP0081.JPG

At idle

 

SUNP0082.JPG

3/4 throttle & gets worse as push closer to full throttle

 

So which is it rings or valve guides? I am working right now to pull the engine out & tear it down to find out.

 

Charlie


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#2 lrhredjb ONLINE  

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Posted May 12, 2017 - 10:55 PM

Dang, since you made the manometer to check engine vacuum I thought you were going to tell us.


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#3 secondtry OFFLINE  

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Posted May 12, 2017 - 11:13 PM

Not sure that your readings are of any diagnostic value. If you have the left side of your manometer connected to the intake after the carburetor I would think they are fairly normal. Hi vacuum at idle lower with throttle open. Have you checked valve lash. Don


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#4 KennyP ONLINE  

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Posted May 13, 2017 - 05:58 AM

Here's a screen shot for the Kohler Service manual for using one of these.

Manometer.jpg


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#5 chieffan OFFLINE  

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Posted May 13, 2017 - 08:26 AM

Why not use a standard  vacuum gauge?  Ever drive a car in the rain with vacuum operated wipers?  Had to let off on the gas to increase the vacuum for the wipers make a couple swipes then go again.  Like Kenny said, high vacuum at low rpm, low vacuum at high rpm.


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#6 FixItCharlie OFFLINE  

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Posted May 13, 2017 - 10:08 AM

This test was done according to the Kohler Engine Manual. Yes Kenny that is the page I am using. The Manometer is connected to the dip stick tube so it is showing the crank case vacuum. The K Series Kohler engines have compression release for easier starting, so a compression gauge will not work for checking piston rings, valve guides, & head gaskets. A Manometer will show lower vacuum / pressure reading then most mechanical gauges. Since I have an RV I have seen many discussions on using the Manometer for checking propane gas pressures & checking for propane leaks. In a RV checking for leaks is the most critical need. On the Kohler engine it should show a vacuum that would be 5 to 10 inches difference of the two tubes fairly close to the picture showing the reading at idle, but it should also be the same at full throttle which is what the book call for. So the question is it rings or valve guides I do not know. My first guess would be rings so I am going to pull the piston to see what I find out. On the Ford chassis I need to pull the engine out for removing the oil pan & I am working on doing that.  The reason I wish I had used the Manometer first is that I would have known that the engine needed to be removed before doing all of the work on the top end. Yes I did find things on the top end of this engine that could be the cause for it smoking like it was, but in the end it is needing more done to it then I realized. So doing more diagnostic work at the start would have saved time on repairing this engine. As I tear this engine down I will get pictures of what I find.

Charlie



#7 boyscout862 ONLINE  

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Posted May 13, 2017 - 01:23 PM

Before you do anything else, do a compression check. With many of the small engines you have to turn them backwards to get an accurate reading. Try Marvel Mystery Oil in your gas to clean the rings. Good Luck, Rick

#8 FixItCharlie OFFLINE  

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Posted May 13, 2017 - 09:17 PM

Rick the highest compression you may get on a Kohler K series engine is maybe 50 pounds with compression release. Kohler is the only engine that I know used a belt for the starter / generator or hand start option even on the 16 HP.

I think that I have found the problem & it is something that I had been thinking about. With the engine out of the tractor I removed the head. I think the cylinder walls look good.

SUNP0007.JPG

 

After removing the pan I pushed the piston out & look what I found.

SUNP0008.JPG

 

Ring gaps are to close together. The next picture I put some tape on top of piston to show how they were.

SUNP0009.JPG

 

I removed the piston so now you see how close the ring gaps are on all 3 rings.

  SUNP0011.JPG

 

The only person I can blame for is myself, I went through this engine a few years ago & thought that I knew better then installing rings likes this. It is something that happens you have some problems & get impatient putting some thing together. Hopefully I learned something from this & remember it if / or the next time I rebuild an engine.

 

Now to look at what the Manometer indicated compared to what I found with the engine apart. Seeing a vacuum when the engine is idling. The rings are sealing but not enough speed or air movement to cause blow by to effect the crankcase vacuum. When the RPM increased then blow by increased enough to eliminate the crankcase vacuum. I think but I do not have the engine back together & running yet. When the engine  is back together & running it maybe something completely different. Since everything looks good with rings & piston I corrected the ring gaps & reinstalled the piston & rings. Now to get all cleaned up & put back together to verify that this was definitely the problem.

Charlie   


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#9 FixItCharlie OFFLINE  

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Posted June 07, 2017 - 04:21 AM

I ended up replacing the rings. When I tried using the old rings with just realigning the gaps it still was smoking almost like before. Checking crankcase vacuum with the Manometer it did show more vacuum when running at full throttle then before. This is what the Manometer shows now.

Manometer B1.JPG

Before test

 

Manometer B2.JPG

At idle

 

Manometer B3.JPG

Full throttle

This is tested with new rings so vacuum reading are not as high as the book calls for but I am sure it will increase as the rings get seated but no smoke when running. I should have removed the fluid after the first test as it stained the tubing. I am trying to clean it up now.

 

Manometer B7.JPG

 

I added a valve to the manometer making it easier to shut off during engine start up.


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#10 bbuckler ONLINE  

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Posted June 08, 2017 - 08:00 AM

This is the method I use. By doing a cylinder leak down tester you can hear where the leak is coming from,

 


Edited by bbuckler, June 08, 2017 - 02:35 PM.

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#11 secondtry OFFLINE  

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Posted June 08, 2017 - 09:22 AM

Did you check ring end gap before installing the new rings. Excessive end gap with new rings indicates cylinder wear.  Excessive end gap with old rings can be cylinder wear, ring wear or more likely both.  Don 


Edited by secondtry, June 08, 2017 - 09:23 AM.


#12 FixItCharlie OFFLINE  

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Posted June 08, 2017 - 11:46 AM

This is the method I use. By doing a cylinder leak down tester you can here where the leak is coming from,

 

Cylinder Leak Down Tester at Harbor Freight on sale $39.99 

 

Clear Vinyl Tubing at Menards 10 feet $4.58

 

Everything else for the Manometer I had in my surplus parts. I have been called cheap but there are many others things that I can spend $35 on.

 

Charlie



#13 FixItCharlie OFFLINE  

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Posted June 08, 2017 - 12:38 PM

Did you check ring end gap before installing the new rings. Excessive end gap with new rings indicates cylinder wear.  Excessive end gap with old rings can be cylinder wear, ring wear or more likely both.  Don 

I do have some cylinder wear but the ring gaps are with in specs following the Kohler K Series Engine Manual. When put the proper spacing on the ring gaps the Manometer was showing proper crankcase vacuum at full throttle again following the manual. What I found was the oil ring was not working as intended by cleaning excess oil from the cylinder wall. Oil ring was not broken.

 

Oil Ring.JPG

Old Oil Ring

 

The way I found this was very unusual & not by the book. This was not seen by cranking the engine over by hand with the head removed but by cranking the engine with the starter & seeing oil being pumped up through the ring gaps. No leak down test would show this, the Manometer did not show this, & according to the manual the only way to do a compression test is to get the engine spinning over 600 RPM so that the ACR will close the exhaust valve would not show this. The reason I started this was not to diagnose an engine problem but to show a very inexpensive tool for testing Kohler K Series Engines the Manometer. When I repair things if I can find a manual on it I always follow it. This many times has saved me time & expenses.

 

Charlie



#14 bbuckler ONLINE  

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Posted June 08, 2017 - 12:40 PM

Cylinder Leak Down Tester at Harbor Freight on sale $39.99 

 

Clear Vinyl Tubing at Menards 10 feet $4.58

 

Everything else for the Manometer I had in my surplus parts. I have been called cheap but there are many others things that I can spend $35 on.

 

Charlie

But a cylinder leak down test you can hear where the air is escaping from



#15 FixItCharlie OFFLINE  

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Posted June 09, 2017 - 12:10 AM

But a cylinder leak down test you can hear where the air is escaping from

When it is this type of problem there is not going to be any air leak as the cylinder is running at full compression. The oil ring is for reducing the oil on the cylinder wall so that it does have a chance to pass through the top rings gaps on the down stroke. That is were this problem is.

 

Charlie






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