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ignition upgrade? (Kirk?)


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#1 dodge trucker OFFLINE  

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Posted April 17, 2017 - 09:53 PM

I think it's Kirk's setup I am thinking of.... I know that I have heard of alot of pullers using the Bosch Blue 12V coil like older VW's would run "stock".... on cast iron Kohler engines.

I need at least 2 coils for different tractors both with Kohler singles, been "robbing" one and swapping it between a couple of machines when I go to work on them.

I see alot of "BERU" brand coils with the same application as the Bosch Blue coil... Is the BERU as good as, the same as, worse than the original Bosch Blue or for that matter a good original Kohler coil? (no I am not talking today's "wannabe" replacement from China....) see a couple listings for them on Ebay, 3.3 ohm, no external resistor needed....

not building a puller, these would be for plain old everyday "working" machines.


Edited by dodge trucker, April 17, 2017 - 09:53 PM.


#2 Trav1s OFFLINE  

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Posted April 17, 2017 - 09:58 PM

I've got the Kirk "clone" coil on my 120 and it along with the electronic pointsaver made a world of difference in a good way.  The clone is a "copy" of the Bosch Blue coil but there are several different versions.  

 

I am not willing to risk the cheap or no name stuff.  

 

http://www.kirkengin...x.php#clonecoil

 

Need to order one for my 312 since I lost the coil tonight.


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#3 stiemmy OFFLINE  

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Posted April 18, 2017 - 12:55 AM

The Kohler stuff IS WAY OVERPRICED!

The resistor, and non resistor type coils that are imported, are good, they sell em at Orielly Auto, and the VDubb stuff comes on the same boat. If they were NO GOOD, nobody would buy them! Ford 8n, 300 six, blah, blah, blah is wayyyy cheaper!

This is what I do, buy a "supposed junk engine", and if it is junk, part it out. Put the items on a shelf, no workie, grab anotha!!!!

Fyi, high performance coils wont make any difference on a stock mota!!!:) Cheers

Edited by stiemmy, April 18, 2017 - 01:05 AM.

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#4 Trav1s OFFLINE  

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Posted April 18, 2017 - 06:45 AM

The big plus of the "clone" coil and the Bosch Blue is that they are not oil filled but filled with epoxy.  As for a coil upgrade on a stock engine, everyone is entitled to their own opinion.


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#5 GardnMastr OFFLINE  

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Posted April 18, 2017 - 02:14 PM

I know the wrong coil will arc your points and melt them right away, in similar fashion as if you had no condenser.
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#6 LilysDad OFFLINE  

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Posted April 18, 2017 - 05:23 PM

If you folks have never been on this site, it has an enormous amount of info about Kohler engines, even if your not a GT Puller.

 

http://gardentractor...s.com/index.htm


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#7 dodge trucker OFFLINE  

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Posted April 18, 2017 - 05:39 PM

I've got the Kirk "clone" coil on my 120 and it along with the electronic pointsaver made a world of difference in a good way.  The clone is a "copy" of the Bosch Blue coil but there are several different versions.  

 

I am not willing to risk the cheap or no name stuff.  

 

http://www.kirkengin...x.php#clonecoil

 

Need to order one for my 312 since I lost the coil tonight.

I agree about "no-name" crap... I hate re-do's....

 

The Kohler stuff IS WAY OVERPRICED!

The resistor, and non resistor type coils that are imported, are good, they sell em at Orielly Auto, and the VDubb stuff comes on the same boat. If they were NO GOOD, nobody would buy them! Ford 8n, 300 six, blah, blah, blah is wayyyy cheaper!

This is what I do, buy a "supposed junk engine", and if it is junk, part it out. Put the items on a shelf, no workie, grab anotha!!!!

Fyi, high performance coils wont make any difference on a stock mota!!!:) Cheers

Yeah I agree on the Kohler stuff (especially factory Kohler parts) being over-priced, that is why I am looking elsewhere.

Yeah I have bought many "supposedly" junk machines over the years, that wound up with something stupid-minor wrong with that wound up an easy and cheap fix that would wind up serving me well for years.... that is most of what I buy haha

On the performance coils not making a difference on a stock motor, true. I learned that via many years of fixing cars...

the biggest hi-volt super duper coil won't produce any more than a  stock coil has to if plugs wires cap rotor etc is all in good shape.... but has the POTENTIAL to produce more than the stock part.... proof of this can easily be seen with an engine on a scope.... run it stock, swap coil, run it again.... no difference will be seen unless the old stock coil was somehow "bad".

 

and no, a coil capable of producing more power than a stock one WILL NOT "burn a hole in a piston" just by itself!!!! Very old, old wive's tale.

 

But, since I have 2 machines here right now that need coils (a 1200 and a 129) anyway, so i gotta buy 2 coils anyways, and these are available for the same money or less than many that say "FITS Kohler".... meaning not OEM replacement... and I can get an upgrade at the same time.... then why not?

 

The big plus of the "clone" coil and the Bosch Blue is that they are not oil filled but filled with epoxy.  As for a coil upgrade on a stock engine, everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

I remember having heard something about the advantage to those coils and the reason the "pullers" like them so well as opposed to a stock replacement, but I could not remember "why" those guys liked the Bosch Blue coils better than the stockers... the main reason I started this post was to find out just that.... I hear claims that this BERU coil is supposed to "be the same as" the Bosch unit, would like verification or denial of that, inclusing "how good" these ones are, mainly how durable they are and if they will last...

 

I know the wrong coil will arc your points and melt them right away, in similar fashion as if you had no condenser.

Wrong as in how?  I have had that happen before but not from the wrong coil... in my case it was a fried ignition switch that allowed battery power to feed thru the coil on a magneto system which should NOT be fed power/ or a wrong application of ignition switch for the machine. I have converted magneto ignitions to battery ignition before.  In that case you do need a 12V coil. You may need a different condenser, and either a different ignition switch or else a dedicated "kill" switch separate from the ignition switch/ but you can still use the same points.



#8 dodge trucker OFFLINE  

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Posted April 18, 2017 - 08:43 PM

just looked (again) at Kirk's site; $60 for a genuine Bosch Super Blue, $45 for the clone from them.. The coil I found on Feebay  that is claimed to "be the same thing as" is in the $20's.. I have 2 coming for $23/ea/shipped....   I asked a Q of one seller of this BERU coil and his claim was that they are exactly the same except the BERU comes from Brazil vs the Bosch from Germany,  but the guy I bought mine from (same part number) said in his ad, and I can see clearly printed on the coil itself "made in Germany"...

I offered a seller of a "good/used" Bosch $15 his listed price was $20. someone bought it for the $20 before the seller could respond... see many of them on there both new and used. wish I could find another source to compare from, for their new version of the "points saver" that is the size and shape of a condenser.... and says to bolt in place of, and replace the stock  condenser.



#9 TAHOE OFFLINE  

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Posted April 19, 2017 - 07:23 AM

I run a Bosch Blue on my Tecumseh, but it has a custom ignition and that was the only option when my buddy built it for me. I did find a cheaper option at one time, supposedly they use them on the VW or something like that and get good results. I like the gel filled, my coil is mounted sideways versus having to be up/down.


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#10 GardnMastr OFFLINE  

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Posted April 19, 2017 - 02:18 PM

My experience is with John Deere parts during my 12 year stint on lawn mowers. You could get the Kohler coil or a John Deere replacement. The Kohler coil never caused arcing, the replacement did. I suspect  the Kohler had an internal resistor and the replacement did not. There has to be a resistor somewhere, either internal or external. That's the way they were designed. Straight 12 volts to a non resistor coil will cause arcing and burn up your points. They probably figured that out in automotive during the '50's, when they changed from 6 volt to 12 volt systems (batteries, starters, and generators, the whole system).



#11 dodge trucker OFFLINE  

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Posted April 23, 2017 - 08:24 PM

Well I had to swap the coil out in my Ariens s16h yesterday after replacing points and condenser and plug and still getting no spark, it was all corroded as it has sat for who knows how long, then pulled the coil wire to find out that the tower in the old coil was corroded bad too. Running now, sure blew out alot of rust dust and who knows what else when the flywheel fan got enough revs behind it to move some air.
Then today I was cleaning up in the attached garage, as my son came home from work the other day with what he called a "surplus" shelving unit.... As I was moving stuff around to make room in the garage for it I found a Blue coil that I didn't know that I had... Figures.
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#12 SupplySergeant OFFLINE  

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Posted May 15, 2017 - 07:33 AM

just looked (again) at Kirk's site; $60 for a genuine Bosch Super Blue, $45 for the clone from them.. The coil I found on Feebay  that is claimed to "be the same thing as" is in the $20's.. I have 2 coming for $23/ea/shipped....   I asked a Q of one seller of this BERU coil and his claim was that they are exactly the same except the BERU comes from Brazil vs the Bosch from Germany,  but the guy I bought mine from (same part number) said in his ad, and I can see clearly printed on the coil itself "made in Germany"...

I offered a seller of a "good/used" Bosch $15 his listed price was $20. someone bought it for the $20 before the seller could respond... see many of them on there both new and used. wish I could find another source to compare from, for their new version of the "points saver" that is the size and shape of a condenser.... and says to bolt in place of, and replace the stock  condenser.

 

I have the new Kirk electronic ignition, the Transdenser II. It really does fit right in the regular condenser clamp, and wiring it is simple enough that a bunch of us did it at Daniels plow day. The tractor has never run better, and the Transdenser eliminated a backfire issue I had never been able to get rid of. David Kirk is quick to respond to information requests, and very helpful. I recommend him as a supplier for whatever he sells!


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#13 tysonkad OFFLINE  

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Posted May 30, 2017 - 02:33 PM

The previous owner of my 1650 had put in a coil that required an external resistor, which I didn't realize immediately. I had replaced the points and condenser but after running for about an hour or two my timing would be shot; weak spark, major afterfiring (flames out the muffler), and the coil was scorching hot. Points were burning up super fast, I would lose power and the engine would become erratic. It sounded exaclty the the audio sample in the link below:

 

http://gardentractor...ds/bad-cond.wav

 

I installed the transdenser, new points, Bosch blue coil, and a new spark plug and wire. The timing was really easy to dial in with the LED on the transdenser and included instructions from David Kirk. I also installed the electric fuel pump from Kirk, as I figured I was getting some vapour lock issues at the same time. Now the tractor has never run better! I ran it hard all day, tilling, mowing very tall clover, etc, and it didn't hiccup at all. I would recommend this system to anyone.

 

To repeat what others have said, David Kirk is very friendly and quick to reply to any questions. His prices are very reasonable as well; I have seen various facet fuel pumps for sale here in Canada at Princess Auto for $115 and up. Even with shipping to Canada + exchange rate, $53 for the fuel pump was a steal.

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Edited by tysonkad, May 30, 2017 - 02:38 PM.

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