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GhoSt 1050 Build/Rebuild


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#151 GhoSt85 OFFLINE  

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Posted October 30, 2017 - 07:40 PM

Hey Stew, thank you for the explanations. I have a belt sander I can use to do exactly what you said. I have a minor update but I did run into an issue and I am not sure if this is going to cause me any trouble.

 

Let start off with everything going well. Guides came out and right back in without any issues. I was able to pull them out without removing the tappets. The driver tool I bought is a snug fit into the valve guide holes but with some pliers and a piece of wood, slid right out.

 

DSC_0103JPG_zps4tzcb3ys.jpg

 

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The tool.

 

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New guides in!!!

 

Here is where the trouble begins. After lapping the intake side, I did the exhaust side which I discovered that the seat might be a little oblong. I first hit it with the fine grit but I wasn't touching this area.

 

InkedDSC_0132_LI_zpsmx5eixrd.jpg

 

So I started hitting it with the coarse grit until the grinding compound started touching it. Around the seat the polish is completely gone but in that area, there is still just a tad bit of polish on it. Its more like opaque. I stopped because the valve steam is now touching the whole seat. Should I continue till it looks the same all the way around or would this be enough?

 

DSC_0131JPG_zpsqpcegbbp.jpg

Hard to photograph the details but I hope you can kind of make out what it looks like. You can still see a little bit of reflection on it.

 

DSC_0134JPG_zpsbsnp0onp.jpg

 

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The other sides of the seat you can tell that the reflection is completely gone where the valve touches. You can compare it to the little right on top that is still polished.

 

The exhaust valve stem with its brand new lapped ring. I believe it might have been new because there was no ring on it before.

 

DSC_0124JPG_zpsboucygvk.jpg

 

 

DSC_0143JPG_zps8j5th8uo.jpg

 

And this is how it sits on the seat. Tomorrow I will gauge out the size of that gap.

 

I also went ahead and took readings on both valves to tappet clearance. For the intake I got between 0.006"-0.0065" which I guess is pretty much on the spot. Manual calls out for 0.006".  And the exhaust I got between 0.004" -0.0045". This one needs to be put at 0.012".

 

That is all I got for today.

 

Thanks again for looking and I appreciate everybody's help.

GhoSt

 

 



#152 29 Chev ONLINE  

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Posted October 31, 2017 - 08:22 AM

Should I continue till it looks the same all the way around or would this be enough?

 

 

I also went ahead and took readings on both valves to tappet clearance. For the intake I got between 0.006"-0.0065" which I guess is pretty much on the spot. Manual calls out for 0.006".  And the exhaust I got between 0.004" -0.0045". This one needs to be put at 0.012".

 

.

GhoSt

 

Glad you got the new guides installed ok.  Looking at your pictures my opinion is that your valve should seal fine on the seat.  I assume that you are measuring the clearance on the exhaust with the tappet in the lowest position as per the manual. 

 

If you only had .004" of clearance on the exhaust valve whith the engine cold it is possible that the exhaust valve was being held open a tiny bit by the tappet when the engine got up to operating temperature (as the valve and tappet expanded from the heat) which may have contributed to the lack of power once things got warm - I wonder if someone installed a new exhaust valve and did not bother to check the clearance when they did it?
 


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#153 Mark 149 J. ONLINE  

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Posted October 31, 2017 - 09:39 AM

Nice work!  I like to spray a little brake clean around the valve and seat to see if it is sealed.  If it leaks continue to lap!


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#154 GhoSt85 OFFLINE  

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Posted October 31, 2017 - 10:02 AM

Glad you got the new guides installed ok.  Looking at your pictures my opinion is that your valve should seal fine on the seat.  I assume that you are measuring the clearance on the exhaust with the tappet in the lowest position as per the manual. 

 

If you only had .004" of clearance on the exhaust valve whith the engine cold it is possible that the exhaust valve was being held open a tiny bit by the tappet when the engine got up to operating temperature (as the valve and tappet expanded from the heat) which may have contributed to the lack of power once things got warm - I wonder if someone installed a new exhaust valve and did not bother to check the clearance when they did it?
 

 

Yes, I even turned the crank back and fort to make sure I was at the lowest point on the tappet. Unfortunately I didn't check the clearance before the lapping to compare but it took a bit of time to get the valve to touch the seat completely so it's possible I made the clearance tighter. For sure, I wasn't getting a complete seal before lapping.

 

In my inexperienced eyes, it does look new and the valve seat had a mirror polish on it. Maybe they were both new and not lap to ensure a proper seal? I never asked the owner I bought it from if he had worked on it but he said that I would be disappointed in the motor because it had no power and that I should be looking into putting in a newer motor. When I tinkered with it before it went down, I thought it ran fine but I don't have anything to compare it to. Well, regardless, I will do my best to set it up right.

 

Thanks again for your help.

GhoSt


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#155 GhoSt85 OFFLINE  

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Posted October 31, 2017 - 10:03 AM

Nice work!  I like to spray a little brake clean around the valve and seat to see if it is sealed.  If it leaks continue to lap!

 

Good idea, I will try this. Thank you.

Ghost


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#156 Dukedkt442 OFFLINE  

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Posted October 31, 2017 - 07:23 PM

With an exhaust valve leak and tight tappet clearance, you'll definitely have some power now!  Due to differences in measuring power over the decades, you've got to have a much higher power level today to equal the power back then, IMO.  I've got a 14 hp OHV Kohler on my Snapper today to do what it did new with an 8 hp.  The 7 hp Kohler in my '60 Cub is never lacking for power, and the 8 hp Kohler in the '65 Jake will pull over a half ton in my trailer in 3rd without issue, even up hill.  Meanwhile, the 26 hp V-twin in my Husqvarna dies if not warmed up and there's grass built up under the deck when engaging the blades.  Never had that happen in all the old sub-10 hp tractors I've had.  Long story short, I think you'll notice a big difference.  I love doing the engine work you're doing.


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#157 GhoSt85 OFFLINE  

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Posted December 24, 2017 - 04:38 PM



With an exhaust valve leak and tight tappet clearance, you'll definitely have some power now!  Due to differences in measuring power over the decades, you've got to have a much higher power level today to equal the power back then, IMO.  I've got a 14 hp OHV Kohler on my Snapper today to do what it did new with an 8 hp.  The 7 hp Kohler in my '60 Cub is never lacking for power, and the 8 hp Kohler in the '65 Jake will pull over a half ton in my trailer in 3rd without issue, even up hill.  Meanwhile, the 26 hp V-twin in my Husqvarna dies if not warmed up and there's grass built up under the deck when engaging the blades.  Never had that happen in all the old sub-10 hp tractors I've had.  Long story short, I think you'll notice a big difference.  I love doing the engine work you're doing.

 

I've heard this before. Could it also be that maybe these older engines had a longer stroke thus creating more torque per hp then these newer engines? This is my first time working on a small engine. Most I have done is replacing the timing belt and water pump on my MR2 but never cracked it open, well until now since the headgasket went bad after overheating but my brother is helping me out with it since he is more mechanically inclined.

 

I do have to say that I enjoyed working on the wisconsin but I've been a bit hesitant to really go deep and do a full rebuild simply because  for one, these tractor and engines are rare down here so I am afraid to do something wrong and ruin it. I did a craigslist search on the US and there are some states were these are a dime a dozen. And two, I am not fully financially stable at the moment so buying and shipping an engine is out of reach for me. Hopefully when my wife and I are settled into our new jobs, this will change for the best. There are other implements I'd wish to obtain.

 

And on to some good news! SHE LIVES!!!! Thanks to all you guys and your help. Been running her around for the last 3 days making sure its not a fluke but she seems stable and consistent. I am still working on the throttle. I have to take it out about half ways before the engine begins to speed up but the governor is doing its job and keeping her alive.

 

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Got a tiller a couple a months ago but I have yet to run it. I do have a problem though. Maybe you guys can help me out?

 

DSC_0218_zps8s8effvk.jpg

Got myself the book. I find it much easier going through actually pages troubleshooting then trying to keep the laptop alive with no power in the shed.

 

And here is my problem with the tiller. I do not believe the drive shaft supplied is the correct one for it. It is a telescoping one that is about 44" fully closed. Measuring the tiller shaft to the PTO on the tractor it is roughly 37" if I am remembering correctly. Unless tube frames varied from model to model, I am thinking this belongs to something else.

 

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The letters says USA and NB on the u-joint on one side and the other which I didn't take a picture. Its a different type of u-joint with the letters Kaydon M-060906. A quick google search showed that john deere was one company that used this type of ujoint. Maybe someone with more experience can confirm this?

 

Ebay showed nothing for drive shafts. Anybody know where I could get one? Or what type of ujoint was used and size of tubing? I have a millermatice 180, maybe I could make one? Or is this something better left for the pros? The model tiller I have is a 33" 18618-01.

 

Thanks for your help and looking,

Jesse


Edited by GhoSt85, December 24, 2017 - 04:41 PM.

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#158 29 Chev ONLINE  

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Posted December 24, 2017 - 05:05 PM

Glad to hear you have it running again and working ok.

 

That driveshaft does not look right as the spline is wrong to fit on the tube frame PTO.  I have the same model tiller and the driveshaft on it is a fixed length - the splined end slides on the tractor pto splines as the tiller is raised or lowered.  I will have to check when I get a chance to see if it buried under snow or if I can take some pictures and get some measurements for you.  There is a parts manual of the tiller in the manuals section - http://gardentractor...5in-tillerpdf/ 

 


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#159 GhoSt85 OFFLINE  

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Posted December 24, 2017 - 07:07 PM

Glad to hear you have it running again and working ok.

 

That driveshaft does not look right as the spline is wrong to fit on the tube frame PTO.  I have the same model tiller and the driveshaft on it is a fixed length - the splined end slides on the tractor pto splines as the tiller is raised or lowered.  I will have to check when I get a chance to see if it buried under snow or if I can take some pictures and get some measurements for you.  There is a parts manual of the tiller in the manuals section - http://gardentractor...5in-tillerpdf/ 

 

Hey Stew,

 

You are right. I forgot that our pto has 6 splines. I didn't even check because I stopped as soon as I saw it was to long. I do have the manual for it but my search came up with nothing with the part #1713550. I did find this one.

 

https://www.ebay.com...gYAAOSwWflaCwD8

 

 

Do you think that would work since it is a tubeframe? I also went  to tractor supply and they have what it takes to build 90% of it. It does come out a little pricey though.

 

  • 10000648 - 6N Yoke and shaft - $84.99
  • 800-0612- 6N Yoke 3/4" - $26.99
  • 11000648 - 6N Yoke and Tube Assembly - $89.99
  • 200-0600 - Cross Bearing Kit - 2x $19.99

Total: ~$242 + yoke

Then I would have to find a bolens 6 spline ujoint and cannibalism it to complete it. Another option would be welding.

 

  • 300-0600 - Weld on 6 Series Yoke - 2x $27.99
  • 200-0600 - Cross Bearing Kit - 2x $19.99
  • 800-0612- 6N Yoke 3/4" - $26.99
  • 2" or 1-1/2 sch40? tube - $?

Total: ~$123 + tube + 6 spline yoke

 

No rush but If you could get those measurements would be awesome to get a complete price on the welding one.

 

Thanks in advance

GhoSt



#160 29 Chev ONLINE  

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Posted December 25, 2017 - 08:50 AM

Went out and looked this morning and right now it is covered in snow and the wind is up so it may be a day or two before I get a chance to get measurements.

 

I don't believe that anyone makes the six spline yoke new anymore - I talked to a chap at Neapco several years ago and the way he spoke they supplied the yoke originally but obsoleted it in the late 1990's.   They are still available used and worst comes to worst the spline can be cut and placed inside another yoke.  This article shows how I repaired an old one that the splines were worn on and the insert I made could just as easily have been placed in side a new yoke that had the inside turned to the correct O.D.

http://gardentractor...s-tube-fra-r204


Edited by 29 Chev, December 25, 2017 - 08:55 AM.

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#161 GhoSt85 OFFLINE  

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Posted December 25, 2017 - 11:47 AM

Went out and looked this morning and right now it is covered in snow and the wind is up so it may be a day or two before I get a chance to get measurements.

 

I don't believe that anyone makes the six spline yoke new anymore - I talked to a chap at Neapco several years ago and the way he spoke they supplied the yoke originally but obsoleted it in the late 1990's.   They are still available used and worst comes to worst the spline can be cut and placed inside another yoke.  This article shows how I repaired an old one that the splines were worn on and the insert I made could just as easily have been placed in side a new yoke that had the inside turned to the correct O.D.

http://gardentractor...s-tube-fra-r204

 

Hey Stew,

 

I found that link yesterday searching for someone who I remember had repaired some splines. As it turns out, it was you! Couldn't log in from my phone to thank you for the efforts you put to document everything you do. Although after looking through it, I soon realized at the moment, that is out of my reach too. I don't own, have access to or know how to operate a lathe but I did download it for future use. Ill keep looking for a work around or buying a used one on ebay for now.

 

And thanks again for taking the time to help me out. No rush on the drive shaft if the conditions are not favorable. Gives me some time to slowly collect the other parts needed.

 

and

 

Merry Christmas!!!

GhoSt


Edited by GhoSt85, December 25, 2017 - 11:48 AM.

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#162 29 Chev ONLINE  

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Posted December 26, 2017 - 10:08 AM

Here are pictures and measurements of the driveshaft on my tiller.  The two end yokes are 2-1/2" long from the end to the centre of the u joint cap.  The tiller end is round with a keyway I believe and the other end is 6 spline to match the PTO shaft - you should be able to get the correct diameter and key way size you require from the input shaft on the tiller.  The driveshaft is 33-9/16" centre of u joint cap to centre of u joint cap.  When I mount the tiller on the tractor I do not put a pin in to hold the front yoke onto the PTO shaft as this is where the yoke slides as the tiller goes up and down. 

 

If the yoke on the tiller end is the correct size for your tiller shaft and the yoke on the other end is the correct size to accept a u joint that will fit the 6 spline yoke you use you may be able to adapt it by cutting it to the correct length - just a thought.  If you do this make sure you align the eyes of the yokes at each end of the shaft so they are in line with each other - other wise they will fight as the shaft rotates.

 

Hope this helps

Attached Thumbnails

  • 1 Yoke At Tiller End.jpg
  • 2 Yoke At PTO End.jpg
  • 3 6 Spline At PTO End.jpg
  • 4 Length Of Shaft.jpg
  • 5 PTO End Of Shaft.jpg
  • 6 Middle Of Shaft.jpg
  • 7 Tiller End Of Shaft.jpg
  • 8 Tiller End Of Shaft.jpg
  • 9 Mounted On 1050.jpg
  • 10 Mounted On 1050.jpg

Edited by 29 Chev, December 26, 2017 - 10:13 AM.

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#163 GhoSt85 OFFLINE  

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Posted December 26, 2017 - 08:04 PM

Here are pictures and measurements of the driveshaft on my tiller.  The two end yokes are 2-1/2" long from the end to the centre of the u joint cap.  The tiller end is round with a keyway I believe and the other end is 6 spline to match the PTO shaft - you should be able to get the correct diameter and key way size you require from the input shaft on the tiller.  The driveshaft is 33-9/16" centre of u joint cap to centre of u joint cap.  When I mount the tiller on the tractor I do not put a pin in to hold the front yoke onto the PTO shaft as this is where the yoke slides as the tiller goes up and down. 

 

If the yoke on the tiller end is the correct size for your tiller shaft and the yoke on the other end is the correct size to accept a u joint that will fit the 6 spline yoke you use you may be able to adapt it by cutting it to the correct length - just a thought.  If you do this make sure you align the eyes of the yokes at each end of the shaft so they are in line with each other - other wise they will fight as the shaft rotates.

 

Hope this helps

 

Awesome, thanks Stew! I can work with this to figure out what I want to do.

 

GhoSt






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