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GhoSt 1050 Build/Rebuild


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#136 GhoSt85 OFFLINE  

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Posted July 14, 2017 - 12:44 PM

If your head bolt were that loose that might explain the bogging down under load.  You might be losing compression reducing the amount of power the engine can produce.  That might also explain why you said the engine was getting so hot.  The exhaust gases are being vented around the head and not through the muffler.  New head gasket would be cheap insurance at this point.  
Sorry, can't help you on the governor.
Good luck.

It's been a few months since I tighten the bolts but I never checked the gasket. I think your right. Already ordered the new head gasket. :D
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#137 Mark 149 J. OFFLINE  

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Posted July 14, 2017 - 03:22 PM

It's been a few months since I tighten the bolts but I never checked the gasket. I think your right. Already ordered the new head gasket. :D

When you take the head off, make sure it is not warped.  You can make it nice and flat by using wet sandpaper on a piece of glass.  There is lots of information on the net of on here about how to do that.  


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#138 GhoSt85 OFFLINE  

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Posted July 18, 2017 - 03:41 PM



When you take the head off, make sure it is not warped.  You can make it nice and flat by using wet sandpaper on a piece of glass.  There is lots of information on the net of on here about how to do that.  

 

Will do. Never would have crossed my mind. Thanks.

 

Ok, so I took the head off and the gasket seems to be good.

 

DSC_0043JPG_zpss5lmyb3p.jpg

 

I have to check the head for flatness but I noticed somethings. First, how much movement should I expect the piston to have? And second, should I expect any kind of movement for the valves? I have a feeling the exhaust valve or valve guide might be bad.

 

Next two pics, you can see that one side of the exhaust valve touches the block before the other side.

 

DSC_0056JPG_zpsxay2zxsm.jpg

 

DSC_0054JPG_zpsfjrnlk0b.jpg

 

And here is a video of it in action. If you look closely, you can see the exhaust valve move as it seats.

 

 

On a side note, I got a box blade. Anybody recognize the sleeve hitch? Owner said he had it on a cub cadet but I've been googling and I can't find one like it. This one has holes to move the mounting point to the right.

 

IMG_5267JPG_zpsz91olxnw.jpg

 

IMG_5268JPG_zpsgnx4uiln.jpg

 

IMG_5269JPG_zpscef3lj1k.jpg

 

IMG_5270JPG_zpsq1otvjvb.jpg

 

IMG_5271JPG_zpsvu43etn9.jpg

 

IMG_5272JPG_zpseyl5lmcu.jpg

 

IMG_5273JPG_zpsfaeyyrzc.jpg

 

Thanks for looking

GhoSt



#139 29 Chev ONLINE  

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Posted July 18, 2017 - 04:21 PM

Attached is a jpeg with the specs on the valve clearances from the Wisconsin Repair manual.  The piston will have some sideways movement - would think if it was really sloppy you would have heard it slapping with the engine running.  The only real way to tell is to check the clearances with a feeler gauge as per the manual.  Could not watch the video - said it was not available.  Looking at the pictures the intake valve (larger one) doesn't look to be seated quite right but it would be camera distortion. Again it is hard to tell on the clearances unless you remove the valve springs and have a good look at the seats and check the stems and guides for wear.

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  • Valve Clearance Specs On TR10D.jpg

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#140 LRCXed OFFLINE  

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Posted July 18, 2017 - 04:49 PM

I'm with Chev, the intake valve looks warped/bent to me. Looking closely you can see dents on the edge that's closer to the valve seat. Check the combustion chamber in the head and see if you have dents in there. That would indicate the something got sucked through the carb, possibly a screw, and got rattled around in there and caught between the head and the valves bending the stems while it was running.

Either way I would pull the valves out, put them in a drill or a lathe and verify if they are indeed bent. But IMHO, they both are.


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#141 GhoSt85 OFFLINE  

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Posted July 18, 2017 - 05:52 PM

OK you guys, try the video again.

 

I broke my regular lens and I've been using a small prime lens so its hard to get a close up because I can't zoom but I have some manual lenses I am going to try. The intake had no wobble so I didn't check if it was seated properly.  I will have to check.

 

And dam it! The more I look into it, the worse its getting lol


Edited by GhoSt85, July 18, 2017 - 05:53 PM.


#142 29 Chev ONLINE  

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Posted July 18, 2017 - 06:09 PM

 

And dam it! The more I look into it, the worse its getting lol

I feel your pain - the Bolens Bug is a cruel mistress - http://gardentractor...he-bolens-bug/ 

 

Perhaps it is time to invest in a second Bolens tractor to double your fun?


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#143 GhoSt85 OFFLINE  

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Posted July 18, 2017 - 07:40 PM

I feel your pain - the Bolens Bug is a cruel mistress - http://gardentractor...he-bolens-bug/ 

 

Perhaps it is time to invest in a second Bolens tractor to double your fun?

 

Ha, that was dam good! Read it to my wife.... said that was me. ... I call lies though lol



#144 GhoSt85 OFFLINE  

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Posted October 24, 2017 - 06:12 PM

Ok you guys, I am back. Things have been a little rough on my end so working on the tractor had been pushed back in priorities. Got my self an old murray to cut my lawn in the mean time.

 

Anyways, I have taken out the valve stems. The valve stems themselves seem to be within specs according to my old harbor freight caliper. Unfortunately I do not have anyway to measure the ID on the valve guides. Considering that the OD is ok on my valve stems, I am going to assume that the valve guides are bad. On the exhaust side, the valve moves excessively. If I bring it up about half ways, it will move about 1/16th - 1/8th. More the higher I go. On the intake side. The movement is minuscule. I did measure this one and I was getting about 18 thousands side to side movement.

 

The valve seats do not seem to be in bad shape. The exhaust is still polished and I don't see any deformities. I will take some pictures when I get my camera charged. Hope to be able to reuse them. And valve guides are cheap enough that I am just going to replace both of them.

 

Hope to get this thing moving under its own power soon.

 

Thanks for looking,

GhoSt


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#145 GhoSt85 OFFLINE  

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Posted October 24, 2017 - 07:23 PM

Ok so here are the pics for the valve seat. They sure are hard to photograph properly.

 

DSC_0078_zpshcmaldkg.jpg

 

DSC_0076_zps6dagmuxb.jpg

 

DSC_0073_zps6snlihau.jpg

 

DSC_0072_zpspmuqxiv0.jpg

 

DSC_0070_zpsmdhjeqda.jpg

 

Also, if there is carbon build up on the intake side, is this a sign of bad timing?

 

DSC_0063_zpsyyhp68jz.jpg

 

DSC_0080_zpsetw1siot.jpg

 

It's not a lot. Could the bad valve guides cause this too?

 

Thanks for looking

GhoSt


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#146 29 Chev ONLINE  

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Posted October 25, 2017 - 09:37 AM

Good to see you back working on your tractor again.

 

I would say that the amount of carbon build up on the intake valve and port is normal for your engine - I have attached pictures of my TRA10D and what they looked like on it when I took it apart and after I cleaned the intake area up during reassembly.  The intake area of my engine was not machined very smooth on the exhaust side of the intake chamber and was a rough casting and yours is probably similar and what appears to be a lot of carbon build up may just be the rough casting area.  The other thing that may have caused this was that your engine did not appear to have any power under load as I read back through your thread.  I had a similar problem with mine an eventually found out that (due to my own stupidity) the governor spring was not adjusted properly - the fact that the engine would have been lugged more than it would have if the governor was working properly may have contributed to the bit of carbon build up in mine - yours could have been caused by a similar problem.  To check the size of the inside of your valve guides you could see how snug a 5/16" drill bit fits inside them - a new 5/16" drill bit should measure approximately .3125" in diameter - you can measure it with a micrometer or Vernier to verify the diameter of the drill bit. 

 

For the cost of two new guides I would suggest replacing them with new ones.  My old valves appeared to be sloppy in the guides as well but with new guides and valves there was still some sideways movement - fyi. 

Attached Thumbnails

  • 1 Intake Valve Seat Area.jpg
  • 2 Intake Valve Seat Area.jpg
  • 3 Intake Valve Seat Area.jpg
  • 4 Old Valve Condition When Removed.jpg
  • 5 Engine During Disassembly.jpg

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#147 Dukedkt442 OFFLINE  

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Posted October 27, 2017 - 08:58 PM

Great tractor and great thread!  Has an old California rat rod look to it.

 

To me (disclaimer: never worked on a Wisconsin) the carbon in the intake looks like exhaust blow-back through an intake valve that wasn't seated fully or evenly (which is what your one picture looks like).  The seat, however, appears that the valve was seating.  I tore apart an old Tecumseh 10 hp for my Snapper this past winter that ate a pint of oil every hour of running, and the intake was clean inside from the gasoline passing by it.

 

If it was me (and maybe you've already done this) I'd do a full rebuild on the carb (all seats, needles, etc) to cure the bogging under load (3rd is a load), unless I missed that problem was fixed.  I'd also pull the piston for a quick hone, new rings, along with new valves, a lap, and grinding of the stems.  The constantly loosening head bolts after 2 torquings (they were torqued and not just tightened, right?) give me pause.  Check for a cracked block at the bolt holes.

 

I also wouldn't bother with the hose fitting on the mower deck... all those are good for is jamming water up into the blade shaft bearings.  I use an old gasket scraper to remove grass after every mow, and at the end of every season, pull the deck off for a complete cleaning.

 

Your fab skills seem to be on point... getting this thing running, and making an engine heat shield, are definitely within your skill set.  Looking forward to reading about the progress on this.  :thumbs:


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#148 GhoSt85 OFFLINE  

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Posted October 28, 2017 - 07:01 AM

Good to see you back working on your tractor again.

 

I would say that the amount of carbon build up on the intake valve and port is normal for your engine - I have attached pictures of my TRA10D and what they looked like on it when I took it apart and after I cleaned the intake area up during reassembly.  The intake area of my engine was not machined very smooth on the exhaust side of the intake chamber and was a rough casting and yours is probably similar and what appears to be a lot of carbon build up may just be the rough casting area.  The other thing that may have caused this was that your engine did not appear to have any power under load as I read back through your thread.  I had a similar problem with mine an eventually found out that (due to my own stupidity) the governor spring was not adjusted properly - the fact that the engine would have been lugged more than it would have if the governor was working properly may have contributed to the bit of carbon build up in mine - yours could have been caused by a similar problem.  To check the size of the inside of your valve guides you could see how snug a 5/16" drill bit fits inside them - a new 5/16" drill bit should measure approximately .3125" in diameter - you can measure it with a micrometer or Vernier to verify the diameter of the drill bit. 

 

For the cost of two new guides I would suggest replacing them with new ones.  My old valves appeared to be sloppy in the guides as well but with new guides and valves there was still some sideways movement - fyi. 

 

Hey Stew, thanks for answering. I went ahead and bought the two valve guides with the tool but out of curiosity, I will check the old valve guides with the drill bit. If you say there is some sideways movement, I am willing to bet that the intake side is ok. Would I be able to remove them without removing the valve tappet? I will look into it tomorrow but I sure hope I don't have to remove them.

 

I think I ended up doing this to the engine when I was messing with the governor. When I first got her, I plowed and mowed a little with all the bad bearings on the deck and she powered right through. Then she went down for a new clutch and since then, I couldn't get her to run right. While cleaning the carb, I also "adjusted" the governor because I felt there was to much slack on it. In my mind, fix two problems at one time. Since then it has been a loosing battle. I think what happened is that I over reved the little motor. Then, I think it was you that said to check the governor level for slippage because of the philips screw on it. Sure enough, after marking it, I could see it moving slightly but the lever wasn't. It's been so frustrating but you live and learn.

 

 

Great tractor and great thread!  Has an old California rat rod look to it.

 

To me (disclaimer: never worked on a Wisconsin) the carbon in the intake looks like exhaust blow-back through an intake valve that wasn't seated fully or evenly (which is what your one picture looks like).  The seat, however, appears that the valve was seating.  I tore apart an old Tecumseh 10 hp for my Snapper this past winter that ate a pint of oil every hour of running, and the intake was clean inside from the gasoline passing by it.

 

If it was me (and maybe you've already done this) I'd do a full rebuild on the carb (all seats, needles, etc) to cure the bogging under load (3rd is a load), unless I missed that problem was fixed.  I'd also pull the piston for a quick hone, new rings, along with new valves, a lap, and grinding of the stems.  The constantly loosening head bolts after 2 torquings (they were torqued and not just tightened, right?) give me pause.  Check for a cracked block at the bolt holes.

 

I also wouldn't bother with the hose fitting on the mower deck... all those are good for is jamming water up into the blade shaft bearings.  I use an old gasket scraper to remove grass after every mow, and at the end of every season, pull the deck off for a complete cleaning.

 

Your fab skills seem to be on point... getting this thing running, and making an engine heat shield, are definitely within your skill set.  Looking forward to reading about the progress on this.  :thumbs:

 

Hey thanks for the compliment :D

 

I do think my rings are ok. I never got any smoke or loss of oil. The head bolts, I never checked them previously. When I first got the tractor, I slapped the motor on, got her running then did a tune up. It wasn't till after I got her running back again after the clutch and trying to figure out why it wasn't running right that I discovered the head bolts loose. I did check them a couple of times afterwards to make sure they were not coming loose and they remained tight. I will check for any cracks and clean the head to make sure I have a good surface for a proper seal as per Mark J's recommendation.

 

Grinding of valve stems? Not really sure how I would do that. I am a bit budget constraint to be taking things up to a machine shop at the moment unfortunately. They were within specs though, as far at thickness. One thing, I would like to check for is runout. Would that matter though? Since they are not a spinning part. I don't have a lathe but I do have a dial. I was thinking on using my drill to spin it and check them that way.

 

I am confident that after putting in the new guides, lapping. Cleaning the head. Making sure the governor and governor lever arm are functioning properly, that it will run right.

 

Thanks for looking and helping out guys.

GhoSt


Edited by GhoSt85, October 28, 2017 - 07:16 AM.


#149 29 Chev ONLINE  

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Posted October 28, 2017 - 09:26 AM

Would I be able to remove them without removing the valve tappet? I will look into it tomorrow but I sure hope I don't have to remove them.

 

 

Grinding of valve stems? Not really sure how I would do that.

 

I think you can remove the guides without removing the tappets.  An easy way to check would be to take a new guide and set it in the valve spring chamber and see how far it protrudes down from the top of the valve chamber opening - check to see if it will clear the tappet when it is pressed all the way out of the block.  I have attached the pages from the Wisconsin manual that shows replacing the guides - it does not mention having to remove the tappets.

 

If the valves were set correctly before and you do not remove much material when you lap the valves then they will probably not need to have the ends of the stems ground to reset the clearance but you should check them after you lap the valves.  If you do have to grind the stems remove a little bit at a time - you can use a sander or grinding disc in a drill.  When I installed the new valves I had to grind some off of the stems to set the clearance.  I used a set of feeler gauges and when I started I had about .002" of clearance (if I remember correctly) and sanded very small amounts off the ends of the valves at a time and then rechecked the clearance by using the incremental sizes of the feeler gauges to see what the new clearance was. I inserted the feeler gauge in between the tappet and the valve and pushed down on the top of the valve with my finger.  Then I would see if the feeler gauge would slide out or if it was trapped between the valve and the tappet.  For example I would insert the .002" feeler in and if it pulled out ok them I would insert the .003" feeler and see if it was trapped or slid out. If it was trapped then I knew that I had more than .002" but less than .003" of clearance.  Then I would sand the end of the valve a bit more and repeat the measurement - working my way up until I had reached the correct clearance.  This method takes a bit of time but it lets you get a feel of how much material you are removing at each sanding and lets you reach the correct clearance without exceeding it.  Make sure that if you have to remove any material off the end that you keep the end of the valve square and at 90 degrees to the stem.  Also make sure that you wipe any dirt and debris off the valve before you put it back in to recheck the clearance  Another thing to remember is that some feeler gauge sets omit certain sizes and that you can place two clean feeler gauges on top of each other to create a missing size. For example if you have a .001" and a .002" gauge but the next size in the set is .004" you can place the .001" and the .002" gauge together to create a .003" size - after you make sure they are clean and flat.

 

Hope this helps

 
 

Attached Files


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#150 Dukedkt442 OFFLINE  

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Posted October 29, 2017 - 04:29 PM

29Chev provided a perfect step-by-step for grinding the valve stems.  All I'll add is that you'll need to check proper clearance between valve stem and tappet in order to ensure the valve closes completely.  After 40-50 years of use on the engine, clearance is probably tight before the lapping; on the Tecumseh TVM220, I had to grind off a fair amount with the bench grinder.  I'd also installed new valves.  If you're on a budget (aren't we all?) and going this far, checking clearance is a necessity, and grinding the stems easy peasy.


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