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Rebuild or use another engine?

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#1 EricFromPa OFFLINE  



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Posted June 08, 2011 - 11:01 AM

My cub cadet 127 with K301A has developed a slight knock and has noticeable blow-by.
It smokes when I gun the throttle and there is a steady stream of smoke coming from the breather.

It's been bored .010 over in the past but it's time for another rebuild.I think that it may have a broken ring or the rings were not properly Gauged.There is 1 slight groove in the cylinder but the hone will take that out.

I have a friend that has a good clean spare engine block he said I can have but it is a K301AS.
I'm afraid to put a used Kohler engine in my tractor that has Balance gears.

He said the K301AS ran perfect when it was pulled but it has been sitting for around 15 years,in his garage.

Knowing that my engine had been bored .010 over I can get rings for it but I suspect that it will need another connecting rod.I have a Long dipper rod out of another K301 sitting in my shed that LOOKS OK but I'm not sure if my connecting rod in the Cub is STD.

Would you
1 Rebuild K301A "I have very Limited funds"
2 Install K301AS and hope the Balance gears hold up.
3 Install K301AS AFTER removing the Balance gears.

The guy wants to keep a spare block laying around just in case his Cub 122 would happen to ventilate it's self.So he will get my block if I get his block.

Thanks in Advance.

Edited by EricFromPa, June 08, 2011 - 11:07 AM.

#2 Texas Deere and Horse OFFLINE  

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Posted June 08, 2011 - 11:16 AM

Eri, I have ran Kohlers with the balance gears in them my whole life, with no problems. I know that there are a lot of members here that don't run them. I would think for the money saving aspect, I would drop the other motor in and run it, but thats my opinoin. If money wasn't a concern, then I would rebuild what I have in it now, that way you know what it's got.

#3 Billygoat OFFLINE  



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Posted June 08, 2011 - 02:59 PM

If the other has been sitting for 15 years, it probably needs rings also. There's a good chance they are stuck. I would opt for borrowing the friends engine and having your original rebuilt.




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Posted June 08, 2011 - 05:00 PM

I would go for option three of the choices since you have very limited funds, however Billygoat brings up a valid point on the other engine. What has happened inside it sitting around for 15 years? I would suspect probably not too much but you can never be sure. The engine in my 100 came out of a wheel horse that my dad bought just for the engine back in 95. The engine laid in the back of our shop till 2009 when I built my 100 and I used it as my engine. I got away with it with no internal work neccasary and shes a good worker. I rolled the dice and it turned out ok, but it doesn't always end that way. With limited funds thats probably going to be your best route as to do a proper overhaul on a k series can get costly if it would need new valves or bearings, machining etc, etc.

#5 mikebramel OFFLINE  


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Posted June 08, 2011 - 09:40 PM

Honestly, its a waste of time to speculate. Just take the motor apart. There may not be any bottom end problems. The piston and rings may be your noise. Obviously they are worn enough to allow so much of the combustion gas past so why wouldnt they be a little loose

#6 EricFromPa OFFLINE  



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Posted June 09, 2011 - 05:50 PM

I got the other engine here and took the oil sump off and well it isn't in the best of condition.
I grabbed the dipper on the rod and checked to see if the rod was tight.Well it's pretty loose.I can wobble it from side to side and in and out.So it will atleast need another connecting rod.The engine for sitting that long was surprisingly clean inside.
It has balance gears and they seem to be ok but with that much play in the rod end I'm betting the bearings in the balance gears are not in the best of shape.

I found a set of Stens .020 rings on Ebay for $19 + shipping and I have a usable long dipper rod as long as the Cub rod is STD.

I'm going to Hone the cylinder and cut down the .020 rings.I don't think the PO properly gaped the rings.There is a noticeable groove in the cylinder wall that would be caused by the rings being to tight or a broken ring.
I checked the cylinder to see if it was out of round when I installed the head gasket last month.You can tell just by looking at it but I checked piston to cylinder clearance the whole length of the Bore with feeler gauges.The piston and cylinder wall was in good usable condition.I hope nothing changed in the month I've been using it to mow.

Going to tear into it as soon as the rings show up.
What's the proper gap for rings? I have several Kohler K series manuals but I'll be darned if I can find the Piston ring gap.

Also if My rod is slightly loose can I file the rod and Cap to tighten it up or would that make it egg shaped?
I would Love to put a Billet 4 bolt rod in it with a Bearing insert.Maybe one of these days I'll have enough money to do that.:bounce:

I have part of a gasket set from an engine I had put new gaskets in last year.I have 2 oil sump gaskets and 4 shims and 2 bearing plate gaskets and 1 Breather assembly gasket left.

I'm Going to do a Budget refresh on My engine and hope for the best.

Edited by EricFromPa, June 09, 2011 - 06:02 PM.

#7 EricFromPa OFFLINE  



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Posted June 14, 2011 - 03:11 AM

Well I got the tired K301A off of the Cub 127 today and degreased it and cleaned it up.

I ordered rings for it last week they showed up.
I took the head off and took a look at the cylinder wall.It's slightly scored but that's not the biggest problem.
I can see the 2nd ring on the piston when I put the piston the whole way down it's egged out that bad.
It's allready bored .010 over and by the looks of it,getting it rebored .030 over will not be enough to make it useable.My thickest feeler gauge is no where near big enough to measure the gap between the Piston and cylinder when it's at the bottom of the stroke.
I sat one of the new .010 rings in and the top is to tight and at the bottom it doesn't even touch the cylinder wall.

The neighbor with the K301as decided to keep his spare block.His cub 123 is starting to knock.I think he ran it out of oil.
So I have to find a good engine or Block somewhere Cheap.I Emailed someone that has a couple useable blocks but he'll most likely want more for a block than I paid for the tractor.They're are a couple K301 blocks on Ebay but that's a huge gamble.They Look OK but Mine does to if you were to take the piston out and hone the slight grooves out.You can't tell if they're egg shaped in a Picture.

This is the one I'm watching that's in question.http://cgi.ebay.com/...e=STRK:MEWAX:IT



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Posted June 14, 2011 - 05:14 AM

If the cylinder is out of round enough that a .030 over bore won't get rid of it then I guess you don't have a choice but to find another block. Why not check with your local machine shop to see how much it would be to sleeve your block? Then you will know what you have for about the same price as you will spend on another used block and any machining it might require?

#9 loggerhenry OFFLINE  



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Posted June 21, 2011 - 04:59 PM

i thought about replacing toe motor on my 582 IH CC. ssmall engine warehouse was my only option. thats going up to a Honda motor. lst time i checked it was around $2000.

#10 KennyP ONLINE  



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Posted June 21, 2011 - 05:27 PM

Sleeve that puppy, gotta cost less than $2000.