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#16 classic ONLINE  

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Posted February 19, 2017 - 05:28 PM

Yes, the reduction unit spins the PTO shaft in reverse. If you look at the block just behind the top of the flywheel, you will see a casting number there. If the casting number starts with AA-83 then it's an AK/AKN size engine. I've found that the part numbers for the cranks and rods in the AB and AK series engines are the same, so the gear reduction units interchange between them. I just removed a crankshaft from a Wisconsin AB with the 6:1 gear reduction. The crankshaft part number stamped into the counterweight is CA-51-64, same as the AKN that I'm rebuilding. The crankshaft for the 5-1/2:1 gear reduction is part number CA-51-65.There is one more tooth on the crankshaft drive gear for the 5-1/2:1 reduction assembly. There is also a one tooth difference in the driven gear on these units. Just a little info in case someone is wondering and needs replacement parts.Thanks again!

Edited by classic, February 21, 2017 - 09:24 AM.

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#17 Paulgo OFFLINE  

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Posted March 06, 2017 - 09:01 AM

Interesting post. I have a BKN-D (D means rough service valves) with the WW45K 5.5 to 1 reduction gear-- which also acts as a direction reverser. I assumed it would be used for a cement mixer, hay elevator, or maybe a conveyor belt. Now I'm wondering if it might have been used on one of these?

 

Paul

 

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**Not trying to hijack this thread, but I have to re-gasket this. It had a paper gasket between the gearbox and cover, but no gasket between gear box and engine block. Am tempted to use a thin layer of permatex for both. Am also thinking I should pull the bottom plate off the block, check the oil pump ball, and permatex the block plate back in place. I have a new head gasket. Thoughts?


Edited by Paulgo, March 06, 2017 - 11:03 AM.

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#18 classic ONLINE  

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Posted March 06, 2017 - 11:37 AM

Paulgo, I don't believe that the BKND was used on the Garden Mast'r tractors. There are countless machines that use a gear reduced engine and the engine could have been purchased by itself through a Wisconsin dealer. The gasket set for an AKN includes a series of gaskets of varying thickness for the PTO or gear reduction side of the engine. It's critical that you install the correct gasket or series of gaskets to achieve the correct crankshaft end play. The end play needs to be between .002 and .004 thousandths. Just using permatex is not an option to be able to set the crankshaft end play properly. Wisconsin BKN gasket sets are available for cheap, so they are worth investing in. You may want to change out the crankshaft seals too, and they don't come with the gasket set. Clean the oil pump assembly like you mentioned, since they do accumulate sludge.
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#19 Paulgo OFFLINE  

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Posted March 06, 2017 - 11:52 AM

Paulgo, I don't believe that the BKND was used on the Garden Mast'r tractors. There are countless machines that use a gear reduced engine and the engine could have been purchased by itself through a Wisconsin dealer. The gasket set for an AKN includes a series of gaskets of varying thickness for the PTO or gear reduction side of the engine. It's critical that you install the correct gasket or series of gaskets to achieve the correct crankshaft end play. The end play needs to be between .002 and .004 thousandths. Just using permatex is not an option to be able to set the crankshaft end play properly. Wisconsin BKN gasket sets are available for cheap, so they are worth investing in. You may want to change out the crankshaft seals too, and they don't come with the gasket set. Clean the oil pump assembly like you mentioned, since they do accumulate sludge.

This engine was in some sort of accident and then sat on a shelf for 50 years. It came to me with no gas tank, or air filter, and the zenith carb had a broken mounting flange. I pulled the head and gearbox to see how things looked and was surprised to find it like new inside. Must have only run briefly before being damaged on the exterior. I found another tank, carb, air filter, and head gasket, but haven't reassembled it yet. No idea how I would check the end play. Could probably just match up what it came with, but surprised there wasn't a gasket between gearbox and block.

 

The thought is to get it back running and find someone in need of such a thing...  Paul


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#20 classic ONLINE  

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Posted March 07, 2017 - 01:02 AM

That will make a great engine for someone in need of one, Paul. You could also remove the gear box and install the usual 1" keyed crankshaft and bearing plate from another engine. This would make the engine appeal to alot more people. The gear reduction engines were used on many different pieces of walk behind equipment, cement mixers, leaf mulchers/blowers, etc. The BKN without the gear reduction was used on Baird Beaver garden tractors starting some time in 1955. You may find someone in need of the engine as is, so you could sell it as is if you want. If you don't set the end play correctly, the engine may knock, or you could spin a bearing race and waste the block or bearing plate. I have seen this happen in a Tecumseh HH120 with the tapered Timken roller bearings and the block was ruined. There are gauges used for setting the end play, so I would recommend that you take the time to set it up correctly, or sell it as is and let the new owner set the end play, or do it themselves. It's a very important step to take when rebuilding an engine and it needs to be done correctly for the engine to last.
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#21 Paulgo OFFLINE  

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Posted March 07, 2017 - 10:50 AM

That will make a great engine for someone in need of one, Paul. You could also remove the gear box and install the usual 1" keyed crankshaft and bearing plate from another engine. This would make the engine appeal to alot more people. The gear reduction engines were used on many different pieces of walk behind equipment, cement mixers, leaf mulchers/blowers, etc. The BKN without the gear reduction was used on Baird Beaver garden tractors starting some time in 1955. You may find someone in need of the engine as is, so you could sell it as is if you want. If you don't set the end play correctly, the engine may knock, or you could spin a bearing race and waste the block or bearing plate. I have seen this happen in a Tecumseh HH120 with the tapered Timken roller bearings and the block was ruined. There are gauges used for setting the end play, so I would recommend that you take the time to set it up correctly, or sell it as is and let the new owner set the end play, or do it themselves. It's a very important step to take when rebuilding an engine and it needs to be done correctly for the engine to last.

This isn't a rebuild. All I did was pull the gearbox and head for inspection. The assembly is obviously original and I won't be making any changes. The engine turned over nicely with no shims or gasket between gearbox and block. My thinking there is just to retorque the bolts with maybe a light smear of vaseline on the mating surface. The gearbox cover had a QD596 paper gasket. Best deal I have found is $16.55 shipped. Too high. That was why I considered using gasket maker. I bought this on impulse and have $110 out of pocket so far. One of those projects for the experience, rather than the hope of good profit. No idea what will be a fair asking price, but I assume it is worth more set up as it came from the factory? Here are some photos, just because...  Paul

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#22 classic ONLINE  

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Posted March 07, 2017 - 12:31 PM

I wonder if your crankshaft end play was set by shim gaskets on the flywheel side of the crankshaft? I just find it odd that there are no shim gaskets under your gear reduction bearing plate, since all three of the gear reduction Wisconsin engines that I took apart had three or for shim gaskets. I did order one of the gear reduction cover gaskets from M&D, but it has shrunk from age and is not usable. I will be making my own gasket out of the roll of gasket material in the pic, since it's the same thickness. I'm also replacing the 1-1/4 " x .005 shim on the reduction gear shaft, since mine has some wear. The cover gasket thickness is important, since that sets the end play for the gear reduction shaft assembly. You need to use a 1/32" thick gasket here, since that's what the original gasket measures. The old leather seals were leaky on mine, so I found rubber replacements to install.
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#23 classic ONLINE  

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Posted March 07, 2017 - 12:36 PM

I wonder if your crankshaft end play was set by shim gaskets on the flywheel side of the crankshaft? I just find it odd that there are no shim gaskets under your gear reduction bearing plate, since all three of the gear reduction Wisconsin engines that I took apart had three or for shim gaskets. I did order one of the gear reduction cover gaskets from M&D, but it has shrunk from age and is not usable. I will be making my own gasket out of the roll of gasket material in the pic, since it's the same thickness. I'm also replacing the 1-1/4 " x .005 shim on the reduction gear shaft, since mine has some wear. The cover gasket thickness is important, since that sets the end play for the gear reduction shaft assembly. You need to use a 1/32" thick gasket here, since that's what the original gasket measures. The old leather seals were leaky on mine, so I found rubber replacements to install.

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#24 classic ONLINE  

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Posted March 07, 2017 - 12:56 PM

Here is where the confusion is for me. The gasket set for the BKN only comes with one gasket for the flywheel side of the crankshaft, but comes with many for the PTO side. I just find it hard to believe that no shim gaskets were needed on the PTO side to achieve the .002-.004 needed end play. Your bearing race may have been pressed deeper into the flywheel side of the block, or it's just how the gear reduction cover or crankshaft was machined at the factory. The stack of gaskets is usually in place so that you can tighten up the crankshaft end play in the future as things wear.

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#25 Paulgo OFFLINE  

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Posted March 07, 2017 - 02:53 PM

M&D was the only source I found for that gasket. Good to know it wouldn't have been worth buying. I will get some 1/32" gasket material and make one. Will also ask around to see if any of my friends have a dial indicator. Might as well do the test while it's all apart. Will let you know as I progress further.

 

Oh, what are you using for a spark plug in these? Something I can get locally, or NOS D16 from epay?  The one in it was a Ch. F9YC that had never been fired.


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#26 Paulgo OFFLINE  

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Posted March 14, 2017 - 12:09 PM

Here is where the confusion is for me. The gasket set for the BKN only comes with one gasket for the flywheel side of the crankshaft, but comes with many for the PTO side. I just find it hard to believe that no shim gaskets were needed on the PTO side to achieve the .002-.004 needed end play. Your bearing race may have been pressed deeper into the flywheel side of the block, or it's just how the gear reduction cover or crankshaft was machined at the factory. The stack of gaskets is usually in place so that you can tighten up the crankshaft end play in the future as things wear.

I started out by removing the gearbox cover. Then I tapped in the flywheel with a few good whacks from a rubber mallet.I then placed the dial indicator on the other end, gave it some pressure, and locked it down. The meter was dead on at 60, so I used that as zero and pried the flywheel back out with a flat bar. Dial drops down to 57 with pressure against the pry bar and 58 + a hair without. Would that be .003 or just shy of .002? This is as I found it with gearbox mounting plate bolted directly to the block with no shims or gasket. There are shims between the gear and cover, so that should be okay once I replace the 1/32 gasket that it came with. Thoughts?

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#27 classic ONLINE  

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Posted March 14, 2017 - 12:14 PM

Between .002 and .003 is just fine, Paul. You'll have no problems with it at all. After installing the gear box cover with the new gasket, check for end play on the gear box PTO shaft. Having at least .003 end play here will be fine, but no less.
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#28 GardnMastr OFFLINE  

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Posted March 23, 2017 - 07:38 PM

Upon a close up inspection of four tags on my machines, all the aluminum tags on the gearboxes were stamped "WW45K-S2" , one tag had the same letters and numbers, just different spacing, ie., WW45-K-S-2.
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#29 classic ONLINE  

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Posted March 23, 2017 - 08:48 PM

That's good to know GardnMastr. Maybe they went to the 6:1 ratio on the JS model with the Briggs due to the taller tires. I have to double check the ratio on that Briggs gear reduction unit. For some reason I'm thinking it's 6:1.

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#30 GardnMastr OFFLINE  

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Posted March 24, 2017 - 08:48 AM

w45-k.JPG ww45-k.JPG Here's the pictures, it takes me awhile to get around to things. glad to answer questions, glad there's some interest.


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