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Something wrong with Transmission


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#16 MiCarl ONLINE  

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Posted January 01, 2017 - 10:53 AM

Jake,

 

I tried to find you some videos/animations.  The problem is the T92 is a sliding mesh transmission and everything I found that shows the shifting mechanism is a synchronized transmission.  While the operation is very similar I was concerned that the synchronizers (which yours doesn't have) make it look more complicated than it is.

 

Bottom line - get the tractor set up as MNGB suggested and play with the gears.

 

Some background that I hope will help you get started:

 

Your transmission is essentially two simple transmissions in the same box and each one can select between two ratios and neutral.  Each simple transmission occupies one side of the H in the shift pattern.  The left side does Reverse, Neutral, 1st.  The right side has 2nd, Neutral, 3rd.  It's pretty plain that at least one of the two transmissions needs to be in neutral or the gear box will lock up.  This is supposed to be prevented by only allowing the shift lever to cross the H when the transmission it is leaving is in the neutral position.  In your case the wear on the end of the lever let it cross when it shouldn't have and you locked it up.

 

The shift mechanism attached to the cover operates the transmissions via the forks that hang down from it, the rings they engage are easy to see in your pictures.  The front transmission is the 2, N, 3 and the rear is the R, N, 1.

 

I think it's going to be pretty obvious where to slide the gears of the front transmission to achieve neutral.  I cannot tell from the pictures exactly where to position the rear to get neutral there.  What I suggest is you put the front in neutral then if the rear isn't obvious play with it as MNGB described to find neutral.

 

Then experiment with it, moving the gears by hand, until you understand how it all works together.  HAVE FUN!


Edited by MiCarl, January 01, 2017 - 10:54 AM.

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#17 JakeQT17 OFFLINE  

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Posted January 01, 2017 - 11:54 AM

This link to an old post here may help you. Let us know if you continue to have any problems.
http://gardentractor...shifter-button/

 

Thanks for the link Classic, very helpful. 

 

After seeing the spring and ball bits disassembled in the instructions I went out and looked at my set-up. To my dismay there was no set screw or apparently any of the spring and balls depicted in the diagram (attached); I either lost them or they were never there. The tunnel that is supposed to house those pieces was simply packed with grease. After clearing it out, I also noted that there are apparently no threads for a set screw. Since as GTractor pointed out, the gearbox came off of a Crosley car, could it be different specs?

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#18 MiCarl ONLINE  

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Posted January 01, 2017 - 12:37 PM

Thanks for the link Classic, very helpful. 

 

After seeing the spring and ball bits disassembled in the instructions I went out and looked at my set-up. To my dismay there was no set screw or apparently any of the spring and balls depicted in the diagram (attached); I either lost them or they were never there. The tunnel that is supposed to house those pieces was simply packed with grease. After clearing it out, I also noted that there are apparently no threads for a set screw. Since as GTractor pointed out, the gearbox came off of a Crosley car, could it be different specs?

 

Looking at this and some other diagrams I realize I mis-spoke earlier.  Part number T92-86A is the interlock plunger.  It needs push to the side to move the shift rail - which it cannot do if the other rail isn't in neutral.

 

I'm looking at a diagram from Olympic Gear Products and they call part number 4605C a Spring Seat.  It's possible that it presses in rather than screwing in.

 

Play with the shift rails.  If you can only move one at a time it's in there.


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#19 classic ONLINE  

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Posted January 01, 2017 - 12:45 PM

You're welcome. Your transmission will not function properly without the detent balls and springs in the top cover. Without them, the forks will move when they are not supposed to, and this can jam your transmission between gears. If there are no threads for the small screw that sets the detent ball tension, then I'm guessing that someone in the past may have drilled it out. The screw could have been rusted in place at one time. I have never seen a top cover without threads in this hole.
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#20 MiCarl ONLINE  

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Posted January 01, 2017 - 12:47 PM

I just went out and had a look at the T92 on my Speedex.  The way mine is positioned it's hard to see that spring seat.  Probing with a dental pick the hole felt smooth and about 1/4" deep.

 

After cleaning it off and moving to a position where I could see it a bit I do see it's an Allen screw.  The screw is flush with the casting and larger diameter than I expected.  The hole I was probing was the socket in the Allen screw.

 

You sure you aren't making the same mistake?


Edited by MiCarl, January 01, 2017 - 12:48 PM.

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#21 JakeQT17 OFFLINE  

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Posted January 01, 2017 - 02:33 PM

You're welcome. Your transmission will not function properly without the detent balls and springs in the top cover. Without them, the forks will move when they are not supposed to, and this can jam your transmission between gears. If there are no threads for the small screw that sets the detent ball tension, then I'm guessing that someone in the past may have drilled it out. The screw could have been rusted in place at one time. I have never seen a top cover without threads in this hole.

 

Looking through the hole with a light on the wall appears smooth so I'm guessing it must have been drilled at some point. I wonder if this was my problem in the first place and the shift is ok. I need to get some calipers to check the measurements. 

 

Any suggestions? I've never rethreaded anything, is it fool proof or another skill that i need to practice and learn? 

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#22 ducky OFFLINE  

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Posted January 01, 2017 - 03:12 PM

I would think a thread insert may work for you.


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#23 MiCarl ONLINE  

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Posted January 01, 2017 - 03:15 PM

Unfortunately you probably won't be able to just tap the hole.  If it's been drilled out it's too big and the tap doesn't put threads back where there isn't material.  If you're going to use a stock spring seat you'll need to put in a threaded insert.

 

The other thing is you're going to need the internal parts.  Any of them in there - look in the bottom of the transmission?  You might be able to find acceptable replacements for the balls and springs at the hardware store but for that plunger you need the part or will need to make one.

 

I believe Olympic Gear Products is still in business.  You might try them for parts you need: http://www.olympicgear.com/

 

Once you've got the parts you should be able to get a thread insert kit from the corner auto parts store.  You might look for a machine shop that will just do the insert - probably won't cost any more than the kit to do it yourself.  If you've got an independent auto parts place with greasy counters they probably either have or know a machine shop that can help you out.

 

Here is a section view of the transmission with Olympic part numbers.

bt92crossview.gif

It looks like you need a 21-129, (2) 21-126, (2) 21-127 and a 21-128.


Edited by MiCarl, January 01, 2017 - 03:51 PM.

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#24 MiCarl ONLINE  

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Posted January 01, 2017 - 03:41 PM

If this one has the internal parts it might be the way to go.

 

http://www.ebay.com/...QMAAOSwZQRYaWVT


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#25 JakeQT17 OFFLINE  

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Posted January 01, 2017 - 08:54 PM

Looking at this and some other diagrams I realize I mis-spoke earlier.  Part number T92-86A is the interlock plunger.  It needs push to the side to move the shift rail - which it cannot do if the other rail isn't in neutral.

 

I'm looking at a diagram from Olympic Gear Products and they call part number 4605C a Spring Seat.  It's possible that it presses in rather than screwing in.

 

Play with the shift rails.  If you can only move one at a time it's in there.

Thanks for the detailed replied, I was able to figure  out how it works based on your direction and playing around with it.



#26 JakeQT17 OFFLINE  

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Posted January 06, 2017 - 07:54 AM

It turns out that some of the gears are chewed up. By the time i rebuilt this one, I think I would be pretty close to the price of a good used one, so I think that I'm just going to go that route. 

 

Since the broken one is actually a Crosley car transmission could some modification have been done to the tractor to accommodate it?

 

Will I be able to just plug in the new transmission or will I have to some additional work and need parts? 



#27 MNGB ONLINE  

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Posted January 06, 2017 - 08:21 AM

Good Morning Jake, the transmissions are the same except for the speedo hole (needed for the car ones) so finding a good used one should not be a big problem, see them listed on e bay but not cheap. I've seen CL listings out east lots more than around here, good luck,

I forgot the shift lever in the auto trans would have been longer, but they can be cut off to the desired length


Edited by MNGB, January 06, 2017 - 08:39 AM.

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#28 Alc OFFLINE  

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Posted January 06, 2017 - 08:34 AM

I do see quite a few people selling PK parts on the Allentown Pa  CL from time to  time ( none right now )   .  You might want to see if you can buy a whole non running tractor and have it for parts . Might no be much more $$


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#29 MiCarl ONLINE  

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Posted January 06, 2017 - 11:36 AM

Looking at your pictures the only thing that looks chewed up is that small gear right at the input shaft.  The drawing I posted above seems to indicate that the thing is cut like that.  Pictures on the web seem to show the same.


Edited by MiCarl, January 06, 2017 - 11:40 AM.

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#30 JakeQT17 OFFLINE  

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Posted January 06, 2017 - 12:42 PM

The gear at the bottom of the transmission under the ones shown in the picture is missing about 5 teeth and some of the ones there are not great. I don't see any listed on ebay so I'm just guessing a new one would be around $50 $60 ? 

 

It was still working when the sifter slipped out, would you just run it until it blew up? 






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