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H-16 hydraulic problem


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#1 dtsh ONLINE  

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Posted December 17, 2016 - 04:05 PM

I have an H-16 which seems to operate for a poo wile OK, but then the hydraulics loose all power and it just stops. I had hoped that a fluid change would help, but it did not. Thus far, it appears my attempt to resolve it with a fluid change has made no change.

 

It will run for a while, but after a bit of heavy work, it seems to lose all hydraulic power, both to the drive and to the lift cylinder. I notice that the fluid level in the reservoir rises and sometimes overflows. It makes strange gurgling sounds sometimes when I shut it off, something the PO had mentioned it has always done.

 

I'm hoping some of you with more experience with the hydraulics package can help me to find out where the issue is and what it will take to fix it. I'm relatively technically competent, but when it comes to hydraulics I am not experienced.

 

What should I be looking for?


Edited by dtsh, December 17, 2016 - 04:05 PM.


#2 boyscout862 ONLINE  

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Posted December 17, 2016 - 04:40 PM

The thining of warm oil could show up wear problems or an air leak problem. Check the manuals for the troubleshooting guide on the hydraulics. Good Luck, Rick

#3 ducky OFFLINE  

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Posted December 17, 2016 - 06:21 PM

I suspect you have an air infiltration issue that is foaming the oil and causing it to over flow due to fluid expansion due to the aeration of the oil.

Most likely cause is a bad seal at the charge pump drive shaft. Other causes would be air entering into the suction side of the charge pump intake.

Hope this helps.



#4 dtsh ONLINE  

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Posted December 17, 2016 - 09:02 PM

For those who have worked on the hydro package, which manuals are the best reference? The Bolens Eaton 10 Service Manual (Model 10 hydrostatic package and transaxle assembly service and maintenance instructions GB-Bolens-Medium-TubeFrame-EATON-10-SM.pdf) covers very little outside of removal.The Medium Tube Frame Service and Repair Manual (48672-Bolens Serrvice Manual 552875-1 MED TUBEFRAME 1978.pdf) covers some of the seals, but provides no useful diagrams or part numbers.

 

I've found several pdfs for the Eaton model 6, 7, and 11, but effectively nothing for the 10 and no parts lists for any of them.

http://www.eaton.com...nt/pll_1616.pdf

http://www.eaton.com...nt/pll_1618.pdf

 

I've never worked on a hydro pump before, but I'm interested in learning, I'm just very unsure on where to start and any pointers or links to other manuals would be greatly appreciated and a parts list would be fantastic.



#5 ducky OFFLINE  

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Posted December 18, 2016 - 07:08 AM

I ran across this. Could it be the same one.  I would lean on the Eaton 11 manual. Hydrostatic drive for MTD 146-990A 1975 or 1976

The M-10 Marshallmatic was made by Eaton Corporation. It is now a obsolete model. There are a few parts houses that have parts. Some of them can even build a new unit. 
The Eaton model 11 is very similar to the M-10 but they are not exact.


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#6 skyrydr2 OFFLINE  

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Posted December 18, 2016 - 07:35 AM

Most unfortunate to have the Eaton 10.. As it was a total pos..if you were lucky to get a good one and it didn't get abused.. It would last a few thousand hours..but most all failed with this exact issue.. They self destructed because of poor flooding of the pump chamber allowing cavitation. This only amplified its own destruction. I was never able to get one repaired for this issue.. Sent them to Eaton and always got a new one back and even those failed in a realitively short time. These were on powered concrete carts and mixer units that needed variable gpm hydraulics. They did not drive the units like on a Bolens or MTD tractor.
We ended up retro-ing Eaton 11s on some and never had another issue.
If you could get the 11 unit to fit your transmission you would be much better off?
Not sure if this would be possible as I have never actually seen the bolens transmission that uses them.
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#7 Rainier OFFLINE  

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Posted December 18, 2016 - 06:04 PM

I saw a used one on E bay the other day.

#8 dtsh ONLINE  

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Posted December 18, 2016 - 10:45 PM

I sourced a spare from a member here, but I intend to tear into the other one and see if I can get it fixed.

I'm still hoping to find detailed specs/manual.
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#9 sodisr OFFLINE  

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Posted December 21, 2016 - 11:59 AM

ducky,,,,  I get some foaming in my 1477..  I will have t look into the air and seals for a leak... Thanks for the heads up.!!



#10 dtsh ONLINE  

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Posted December 23, 2016 - 10:03 PM

The replacement I sourced didn't work out, unfortunately, seems there are different Eaton 10's and filter assemblies.

 

I'm familiar with using soapy water to find leaks in air pressurized systems, are there any simple methods to look for suction leaks in a hydro circuit that would help me isolate where the issue is?



#11 Alc OFFLINE  

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Posted December 24, 2016 - 05:52 AM

Has anyone tried a transmission additive like Lucas Transmission Fix in a GT ?

#12 dtsh ONLINE  

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Posted January 26, 2017 - 10:49 PM

I decided to risk wasting some money in the hopes of getting this working again and ordered replacement seals, which arrived today.

 

Now I just need to finish out some of my other tasks....


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#13 dtsh ONLINE  

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Posted April 24, 2017 - 09:44 PM

I've been working on this in the odd minutes I could steal between other tasks for weeks and I believe I have managed to replace the seal without destroying anything. It was a fair bit easier than I expected. I knew I'd need more ATF, but I failed to get another quart so testing it will have to wait for another day.

 

I intended to take pictures, but as so often happens I get into the project and forget to take pictures that provide good context for others and am left with a mish-mosh collection of pictures from odd angles of bolts, springs, and parts in their original location as a reference for reassembly, but they're not real useful to others. My apologies to anyone who might have found those useful, you'll have to settle for my description instead.

 

Replacing the seals was relatively straightforward; I ordered the input shaft and control shaft seals from one of our vendors here, part numbers 1724376 and 1724370 respectively. After removing the fender pan, I disconnected the hoses to the filter and hydro package, disconnected the brake by removing the caliper, and removed the control arm at the front as I couldn't figure out how to get it off the control mechanism attached to the hydro. I loosened the bolts clamping the tubes to the transmission and slowly wiggled the transmission off the tubes. To help protect against grit and grime getting into the system, I wrapped all open connections in plastic and gave them a wrap of tape to hold it in place. After that it's just a matter of prying the old seals out, pressing the new ones in, and reversing the steps to get it all back together. It really was much easier than I anticipated, now I just hope this voodoo fix addresses the actual issue.


Edited by dtsh, April 24, 2017 - 10:31 PM.

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#14 dtsh ONLINE  

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Posted April 28, 2017 - 08:12 PM

I finally got around to a little light testing and it appears to be fixed.

 

During reassembly I didn't align the control plate, what I believe is the "Neutralizer Arm" in the manual and had to loosen and adjust it or else the tractor would slowly creep ahead when applying the brake due to the misalignment causing neutralizer arm to apply pressure on the control arm. Easy fix and took only moments to resolve.

 

One more project completed, now to make time for replacing the input shaft on the 750.



#15 dtsh ONLINE  

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Posted May 08, 2017 - 08:32 AM

One last followup on this thread. Changing the seals did resolve the issue of air infiltration into the pump. I managed to use the tractor to mow 3+ acres without incident. No appreciable expansion in the reservoir and no loss of power; both of which would occur within 10 minutes of operation previously.


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