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1998 Toro Groundsmaster Model/Serial 30795-80161 325D With Mitsubishi engine is haRD STarting The glow plugs tested good with a continuity tester. I


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#1 jrsavoie OFFLINE  

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Posted November 21, 2016 - 10:19 AM

1998 Toro Groundsmaster Model/Serial 30795-80161 325D With Mitsubishi engine is haRD STarting

The glow plugs tested good with a continuity tester.

I am only getting 8.93 volts to the glow plugs. I believe it should be 10.5 volts

The glow plug indicator does not work.

Any ideas on what parts I need? 

IS there a part I can install that will drop the voltage from 12 volt to 10.5 volts for the glow plugs? If I knew more electrical, I'm sure this would be an easy fix.

By the schematic I am not sure what part to order or if it is even available. I am guessing it is the glow plug indicator - which is not working. My Toro 223D just has a light that illuminates for the glow plug indicator.

The Mitsubishi K3B was used in quite a few different pieces of equiopment. Does anybody have a part number I can order to get my glow plugs working correctly?

Edit - 
The part number for the indicator is Toro 42-9190  $56.04

 
I would think I get get something far cheaper to reduce from 12 to 10.5 volts - any ideas?

https://lookup3.toro...fm?xCaller=Toro


Edited by jrsavoie, November 21, 2016 - 10:49 AM.


#2 Diesel1050 OFFLINE  

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Posted November 21, 2016 - 12:09 PM

Why would you want to drop the voltage to the glow plugs? They are designed to work with a 12v system...

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#3 jrsavoie OFFLINE  

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Posted November 21, 2016 - 12:13 PM

Not these glow plugs. And a lot of glow plugs are not 12 volt. The glow plugs in my Jeep are 5 volt.

You have to drop the voltage to what the glow plug requires or you risk burning the glow plug out. 

Worse yet, you could cause the glow plug to swell and that's a whole nother box of bees


Edited by jrsavoie, November 21, 2016 - 12:13 PM.


#4 chieffan ONLINE  

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Posted November 21, 2016 - 12:29 PM

Put a brake light bulb in series if you think you need to drop the 12 V to 10.5.  That is only 1.5 V difference and well within the range I would think.  I have always tested a glow plug removed with a 12 V battery.  Can tell real fast if it is working or not.  They either do or don't.


Edited by chieffan, November 21, 2016 - 12:33 PM.


#5 jms180 OFFLINE  

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Posted November 21, 2016 - 12:38 PM

Put a brake light bulb in series if you think you need to drop the 12 V to 10.5.  That is only 1.5 V difference and well within the range I would think.  I have always tested a glow plug removed with a 12 V battery.  Can tell real fast if it is working or not.  They either do or don't.

I agree I would not thin 1.5 volts would make a difference.



#6 jrsavoie OFFLINE  

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Posted November 21, 2016 - 12:38 PM

The OEM glow plug indicator - Toro pt. # 42-9190 - has a built in resistor or something to drop the voltage. I thought $56.04 was a little pricey to turn 12 volts to 10.5 volts.

If I do not find something more reasonably priced, I will just buy a new one. 

There is a 325D advertised as being parted out, but the seller has never returned my calls.

Last time I bought a new brake cable like he had advertised in his pictures.

He has the glow plug indicator in his pictures. But I do not harbor much hope of him calling back so I can buy it. He's just an evil tease.

The controller has to be fairly heavy duty to handle the direct short of the glow plugs

Right now I only have 8.9 volts. I also seriously doubt that just running 12 volts would cause an issue.

But I do not know that it will not with these glow plugs. Some glow plugs tend to swell, then you have to pull the head if you burn them out.

Not having any experience with these glow plugs. I am not going to chance it by running 12 volts to them when they are designed for 10.5

 


Edited by jrsavoie, November 21, 2016 - 12:41 PM.


#7 Cvans OFFLINE  

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Posted November 21, 2016 - 01:58 PM

Good bad or otherwise here is what I did on my Mitsubishi tractor. K4d engine.

When purchased none of the glow plugs were good. I removed that glow indicator as those things draw a lot of current. Think toaster element, Wired a 60 amp relay inline with the ignition switch. So now when the key is in the glow position the relay is energized and power for the glow plugs comes directly from the battery. When operating the glow plugs you will notice that the indicated battery voltage is between 10 and 11 volts. Works like a charm. Glow plug heat up time is shortened and the tractor starts right now.

Placed a bright red led in the hole where the indicator was. I've done this on older Kubota, Mitsubishi and Yanmar engines with no bad effects so far. 

If your intent on using the Mitsubishi indicator let me know and I will see if I can find it and send it to you for the cost of postage. 


Edited by Cvans, November 21, 2016 - 07:49 PM.

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#8 Rustysteele OFFLINE  

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Posted November 24, 2016 - 10:02 PM

Are you sure the engine isn`t just tired? Usually if a glow plug has continuity, it`s good.



#9 jrsavoie OFFLINE  

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Posted November 25, 2016 - 06:58 AM

Are you sure the engine isn`t just tired? Usually if a glow plug has continuity, it`s good.

I haven't done a compression test yet, but it seems to run strong and started good until the  temperatures dropped. 

The glow plugs are good but if getting low voltage they will not perform.

Kind of like running with a plugged fuel filter - it may run and there's nothing wrong with the engine, but it's not going to perform well

I will have to look into running the glow plugs off of a relay. 

What relay did you use?

I have some relay sockets and relays here - but I think they are 5 pin and only 50 amp. 

My Toro 325D has a toggle switch to run the glow plugs. I don't really care for that, but it works. It's the way it came from the factory.

The 223D reelmaster we had, was controlled from the ignition switch with a small bulb for an indicator. I like that a lot better
 



#10 jrsavoie OFFLINE  

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Posted November 25, 2016 - 07:02 AM

Good bad or otherwise here is what I did on my Mitsubishi tractor. K4d engine.

When purchased none of the glow plugs were good. I removed that glow indicator as those things draw a lot of current. Think toaster element, Wired a 60 amp relay inline with the ignition switch. So now when the key is in the glow position the relay is energized and power for the glow plugs comes directly from the battery. When operating the glow plugs you will notice that the indicated battery voltage is between 10 and 11 volts. Works like a charm. Glow plug heat up time is shortened and the tractor starts right now.

Placed a bright red led in the hole where the indicator was. I've done this on older Kubota, Mitsubishi and Yanmar engines with no bad effects so far. 

If your intent on using the Mitsubishi indicator let me know and I will see if I can find it and send it to you for the cost of postage. 

Do you have the number for the glows in case I have to order some?

I think I will go your route. I will just hook up to the toggle I have to run the glows. Where did you get your LED indicator light? 

What relay did you use?

Do you have an inline fuse off the battery?

What size wire did you use to run to the glow plugs?


Edited by jrsavoie, November 25, 2016 - 07:04 AM.


#11 Cvans OFFLINE  

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Posted November 25, 2016 - 10:56 AM

I'll take a look while I'm out today and get back to you. 


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#12 jrsavoie OFFLINE  

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Posted November 25, 2016 - 05:30 PM

On another recommendation, I have decided to eliminate the nichrome wire and replace it with a starter relay or I also have a glow plug controller from a 6.2 diesel.  I could use it by itself, but the ECM tells it how long to stay on. And I won't have the ECM. So I need a timed switch or just hold the toggle the proper amount of time.

The reason I would like a timed switch, is that I am not the only person running the machine. I feel a timed switch would make it more failsafe.

They would just have to push the button once and hit the key when the light went out.
 
I am going to use a little LED light for the indicator light. I was wanting the glow plugs on a timer. Like my Toro 223D Reelmaster was - I'm not sure if it was a timer or thermal switch. 
 
How long does everybody's glows stay on the little 3 cylinder diesels, that has a timer that shuts them down Automatically?
 
I was think 10 to 15 seconds.
 
Does anybody have a recommendation for a timer?
 
Or a different LED light? The light I have takes a 3/4" hole. It's a trailer marker light. I haven't looked at it yet, to see if I can reduce the hole size needed. Not sure what hole size the nichrome has. 

Thanks

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#13 Cvans OFFLINE  

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Posted November 25, 2016 - 07:34 PM

The led that I used was a miniature clearance light for a trailer. Is really bright even in the day light.

IMG_0365.JPG

 

Used 10 ga. wire to the glow plugs. You will need a continuous duty solenoid with at least a 60 amp rating. 

This is the one I used. It is grounded through the case so only you only need to run one wire to the solenoid coil.

IMG_0360.JPG

 

The Glow plugs are the standard NGK Y114T's used in the Mitsubishi K4D engine. $12.42 each from Amazon.

Your timer would be a good idea except when the temps. drop and you need more heat time. Then you will have to remember to hit the glow plug button again. Our Kubota Excavator uses a timer and it is only on for about 15 seconds. When it gets below 32 degs. I will cycle it twice and the engine starts right up. 


Edited by Cvans, November 25, 2016 - 07:37 PM.

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#14 jrsavoie OFFLINE  

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Posted November 25, 2016 - 09:07 PM

I think I still have a couple of starter solenoids in the shop. i WOULD THINK THEY WOULD WORK. Dang old caps lock button.

I also have the glow plug controller from the 6.2 GM diesel. I think I should be able to make it go with one wire - Not positive on that.

THe trailer LED's are what I have quite a few of - Amber and red.

I found this a few minutes ago:

https://www.amazon.c...ZPR9RFPHB4KB77S


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#15 Cvans OFFLINE  

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Posted November 25, 2016 - 09:38 PM

I found this a few minutes ago:

 

That's quite the little relay. Looks like the "interval on" function should do what you want and it will recycle by pushing and holding your glow plug switch again. 


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