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Briggs and Stratton ring set

engine restoration

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#16 boyscout862 ONLINE  

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Posted November 03, 2016 - 11:51 AM

Nahhhh, come on rick, I love cutting a piece of wood wroing then using a hammer to make it fit, practice does make perfect. I'm just THAT good at hitting the wood into place after all these years of incorrect measuring ;)

 

Remember that if it aint broke, you're not trying :)

The carpenters union that I grew up in taught me: measure twice, cut once. Even when framing, my father insisted on measuring to the nearest 1/16" so that combined errors could not grow to more than 1/8". As a Civil Engineer and an Army Engineer Officer, I saw too many times where nobody measured and then the idiots couldn't figure out what went wrong.

 

I find a strong resistance by younger guys to "read the manual". They want to instantly know. The secret to almost everything is patience and research. Even though I've been working on cars and small engines for about 50 years, I still read through the manual before starting. The ten minutes spent reading often saves me alot more in the long run. Just realized, its been 49 years since I got my drivers license and car. Duct tape is the secret weapon. Good Luck, Rick


Edited by boyscout862, November 03, 2016 - 11:51 AM.

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#17 secondtry ONLINE  

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Posted November 03, 2016 - 12:15 PM

Nahhhh, come on rick, I love cutting a piece of wood wroing then using a hammer to make it fit, practice does make perfect. I'm just THAT good at hitting the wood into place after all these years of incorrect measuring ;)

 

Remember that if it aint broke, you're not trying :)

Yup cut it off three times and it's still to short. Don


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#18 Alc ONLINE  

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Posted November 04, 2016 - 05:44 AM

Not trying to highjack this thread but it's making me wonder , ( sometimes that's not good lol )  Say you have an 12 HP  engine already bored .030" , but it's a worker and   it's time for new rings , only to find the end gap is over the limit , It really should be sleeved to junked but  because your CHEAP , like me .  Could you use the standard size rings for the 14 HP and file the ends to get the correct end gap or would there be too much distortion ?


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#19 boyscout862 ONLINE  

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Posted November 04, 2016 - 06:32 AM

Not trying to highjack this thread but it's making me wonder , ( sometimes that's not good lol )  Say you have an 12 HP  engine already bored .030" , but it's a worker and   it's time for new rings , only to find the end gap is over the limit , It really should be sleeved to junked but  because your CHEAP , like me .  Could you use the standard size rings for the 14 HP and file the ends to get the correct end gap or would there be too much distortion ?

AS the bore gets bigger, the end gap would get bigger for standard rings. Rings usually will cover up to 0.010" bigger bores than they are sized for.

 

I've always done engines a couple thousands loose on the bore because in 1968, I saw a race engine put together at exactly the lower end of specs. It was too tight and didn't last 5 races. When taken apart, several of the rings had broken and then managed to break out the ring groves in a couple of the pistons. The cylinders were plowed. Since it had been bored 0.060" over, it was a loss. Same with my brothers' 327, 365hp. He put it together too tight and was comtinually having starting problems.

 

Just follow the directions in the manual and allow a little extra room for a smooth fit. Good Luck, Rick


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#20 Bruce Dorsi ONLINE  

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Posted November 04, 2016 - 08:34 AM

  Say you have an 12 HP  engine already bored .030" , but it's a worker and   it's time for new rings , only to find the end gap is over the limit , It really should be sleeved to junked but  because your CHEAP , like me .  Could you use the standard size rings for the 14 HP and file the ends to get the correct end gap or would there be too much distortion ?

 

In the case of the engines discussed in this thread, the difference in standard bores is 1/8".  .....If the smaller cylinder is bored .030" over, that still leaves quite a difference (.095") in bore diameters.  .....The larger rings may, or may not, be useable.  ....Certainly the tension of the rings will be affected, but I have no idea how that would affect their life or accelerate wear on the bore.


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#21 JBIowner OFFLINE  

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Posted November 04, 2016 - 01:39 PM

What is the condition of the bore? Is the end gap on the ring exactly the same from top to bottom?  Can you detect a ridge at the top of the cylinder? Is it scored? Pictures of what you are dealing with could be a great help. The rings you have are obviously to small for your cylinder. The cause and solution are the only questions. Don

I think we may have the solution in sight.  The model number reference I was using from the Tractor manual was for a 12 hp.  The engine in a JBI is a 14 hp, so I was ordering rings for the wrong engine.  I have ordered another set of rings which should be here next Tuesday.  I can then follow up on setting the ring gap and testing the bore though out it's depth.  If these fit the problem should be solved assuming there isn't some other issue with the cylinder bore.  Thanks for for feed back and help.


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#22 JBIowner OFFLINE  

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Posted November 04, 2016 - 01:46 PM

In the case of the engines discussed in this thread, the difference in standard bores is 1/8".  .....If the smaller cylinder is bored .030" over, that still leaves quite a difference (.095") in bore diameters.  .....The larger rings may, or may not, be useable.  ....Certainly the tension of the rings will be affected, but I have no idea how that would affect their life or accelerate wear on the bore.

I should have the correct rings by Tuesday of this next week. The root cause was that I was ordering parts for a 12 hp rather the actual engine size of 14 hp.  The engine does not have any model/type/etc. information listed on it and I was referencing an incorrect model number when ordering parts.  All the feed back from GT has given me the correct information to purchase the correct parts.  Thanks for your help and interest assisting me with this problem.


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#23 sacsr OFFLINE  

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Posted November 05, 2016 - 03:16 PM

For future reference- On the JB tractors the serial number and model number are on the carb side of the front metal housing just below the frame- either loosen up bolts so you can lift front of motor to see. I have used a flash light at night at an angle to read some of the numbers.
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#24 JBIowner OFFLINE  

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Posted November 23, 2016 - 11:18 PM

What is the condition of the bore? Is the end gap on the ring exactly the same from top to bottom?  Can you detect a ridge at the top of the cylinder? Is it scored? Pictures of what you are dealing with could be a great help. The rings you have are obviously to small for your cylinder. The cause and solution are the only questions. Don

The condition of the bore was good.  The root cause was I have a 14 hp engine and was using a model number for a 12 hp.  I reordered the ring set for the correct model and they fit perfect right out of the box.  I did however find an additional problem with the intake valve.  It was not seating and was letting the newly increased compression blow back out the intake on the compression stroke.  I replace with a new valve and reground it to the seat.  Put the engine back together and it started immediately!  I put it back in the tractor and it runs like a new one.  No more smoking or banging. 


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#25 JBIowner OFFLINE  

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Posted November 23, 2016 - 11:30 PM

For future reference- On the JB tractors the serial number and model number are on the carb side of the front metal housing just below the frame- either loosen up bolts so you can lift front of motor to see. I have used a flash light at night at an angle to read some of the numbers.

I have looked for the model/type/etc. numbers each time I have had the engine out numerous times over the last 1.5 years.  I have just finished putting new rings, connecting rod, etc. and finally had it running in the shop.  I was doing some sanding and paint touch up when I took the engine cover out into the sun shine where I saw something on the lower left side of the cover.  It was the model/type/etc. numbers.  Unfortunately when the engine is installed in the tractor this specific area is right next to the frame, so it is impossible to see these numbers until the engine is removed.  And then only when the paint has been removed.  It turns out that this engine is a module 320424, manufactured in 1969,  in Oct. on the 21st.  Thanks for you help.


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