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Briggs and Stratton ring set

engine restoration

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#1 JBIowner OFFLINE  

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Posted November 02, 2016 - 03:59 PM

I am attempting to replace the rings in a B & S 14 hp cast iron engine (model # 300424).  I have ordered and received a new ring set per the B&S parts manual (part number 299690), but the new rings do not fit the cylinder bore per the B&S service manual.  The new rings do match the original rings, but the originals smoked badly and the engine was difficult to start.  The B&S service manual says I need to fit the new rings inside the cylinder bore and then insure that I have a maximum of a 30 thousands gap between the two ends.  The old ring set and now my new ring set has a gap of 3/8 of inch.  The question is where would one be able to purchase a ring set that would fit the cylinder bore?  Any help or direction anyone can give would be much appreciated.



#2 glgrumpy OFFLINE  

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Posted November 02, 2016 - 04:07 PM

Appears you might have a bored block or factory oversize?? Think a little better measuring of the bore and piston might be needed to make decision on what you need.  Maybe an auto shop or parts place will have tools and measure it for you and give opinions on what is needed.  Many of these blocks are same for diff size HP's and such. could someone actual have replace main block  with a bigger one and just used the tins off orig?  That would give wrong info then. OR, just the tin itself may have come from another engine, they fit many sizes.  Wonder if Piston also is too small, but would think you could see that not fitting if that much diff?


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#3 Bolens 1000 ONLINE  

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Posted November 02, 2016 - 04:28 PM

Being that you ordered a standard ring set makes me believe you may have got the wrong set of rings , or your engine may be a special spec engine and use a different part.

 

Whats the type number of your B&S I'll check my manuals for you to confirm the part number .

 

 

 

Another possibility is your engine is not the model you think???

 

 

Just throwing some things out there


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#4 boyscout862 ONLINE  

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Posted November 02, 2016 - 05:06 PM

It sounds like you are a beginner. You should download the B&S Repairmans' Handbook. It explains how to properly repair/rebuild an engine. As an engine wears out, we usually will bore out the cylinder to a standard oversize and then use the piston and rings that are sized for the oversize. Read the manual and then checkout some youtube videos on this subject. Good Luck, Rick


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#5 JBIowner OFFLINE  

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Posted November 02, 2016 - 05:49 PM

Appears you might have a bored block or factory oversize?? Think a little better measuring of the bore and piston might be needed to make decision on what you need.  Maybe an auto shop or parts place will have tools and measure it for you and give opinions on what is needed.  Many of these blocks are same for diff size HP's and such. could someone actual have replace main block  with a bigger one and just used the tins off orig?  That would give wrong info then. OR, just the tin itself may have come from another engine, they fit many sizes.  Wonder if Piston also is too small, but would think you could see that not fitting if that much diff?

The motor does not have any model/type, etc. listed on it anywhere.  My source for the model number comes from the Bush Hog tractor manual.  I have however downloaded a B&S parts manual for the 300424 and it all looks identical to my engine.  You do however bring up some good points which could have happened over the past 45+years.  The piston is correct to the bore size and the specification for the bore size is 3.5615 to 3.5625.  I need to get a micrometer to verify if the bore matches that specification.    I will double check part numbers for other horsepowers to see if the ring sets are different from the number 299690.   Thanks for your help.



#6 Bruce Dorsi ONLINE  

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Posted November 02, 2016 - 05:51 PM

The B&S model 300424 is a 12hp engine, and has a standard bore of  3-7/16".  ....Standard ring set # 299690.

 

The B&S model 320424 is a 14hp engine, and has a standard bore of 3-9/16".   .....Standard ring set # 390484.

 

It sounds like you're trying to use the smaller ring set in a larger-bore engine.

 

It may be possible your 300424 has been bored 1/8" to 3-9/16" ,  or you may have a 320424 with a flywheel shroud which has been changed,

 

????????????????????


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#7 JBIowner OFFLINE  

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Posted November 02, 2016 - 05:57 PM

Being that you ordered a standard ring set makes me believe you may have got the wrong set of rings , or your engine may be a special spec engine and use a different part.

 

Whats the type number of your B&S I'll check my manuals for you to confirm the part number .

 

 

 

Another possibility is your engine is not the model you think???

 

 

Just throwing some things out there

You could be correct about a wrong ring set.  The specification for the bore is 3.5615 to 3.5625 and I need to verify the actual bore size with a micrometer.  

Unfortunately the only reference for a model number has come from a Bush Hog owner's manual.  I have downloaded a B&S parts manual for the 300424 and it all looks identical.  Sorry I cannot furnish a type number.  I had kind of settled on a 0023 type.

All I can say is the B&S parts manual looks correct to the engine.



#8 JBIowner OFFLINE  

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Posted November 02, 2016 - 06:22 PM

The B&S model 300424 is a 12hp engine, and has a standard bore of  3-7/16".  ....Standard ring set # 299690.

 

The B&S model 320424 is a 14hp engine, and has a standard bore of 3-9/16".   .....Standard ring set # 390484.

 

It sounds like you're trying to use the smaller ring set in a larger-bore engine.

 

It may be possible your 300424 has been bored 1/8" to 3-9/16" ,  or you may have a 320424 with a flywheel shroud which has been changed,

 

????????????????????

You have probably found the root cause of my problems.  I  went to the only manual I have and it does reference the 12 hp which I did miss.  I will use the model number you have furnished along with the ring set number and see if that is the solution.  The tractor is a JBI so it should have the 14 hp engine.  I will verify via a micrometer to be sure.  Thanks so much for your help.  I should have reached out to the GT group before starting this project.  



#9 Bruce Dorsi ONLINE  

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Posted November 02, 2016 - 07:44 PM

The motor does not have any model/type, etc. listed on it anywhere.  

 

An original B&S engine would have the Model, Type, and Code (or Serial) numbers in one of two locations.  ...These numbers would be found on the flywheel shroud or a plate which would be attached to the cooling fins at the back of the engine.

 

Any numbers on the shroud could be in one of several places.  .....They may be stamped into:

(1) The flat area at the top of the shroud.  

(2) The flat area on the face of the shroud. 

(3) The flat area on the left side of the shroud.

(4) The curved area at lower left side of the shroud.

 

If the shroud has several coats of paint, the numbers may not be easily visible.  ....Look on the inside of the shroud, as many times when the numbers were stamped they would telegraph to the inside.


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#10 Tecumseh power OFFLINE  

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Posted November 02, 2016 - 11:32 PM

Usually on the carb side of the flywheel shroud about 3/4 of the way down the numbers will be stamped in the shroud. They will be on it as long as it is not really rusty. Start sanding some paint off in that area and you will find them
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#11 boyscout862 ONLINE  

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Posted November 03, 2016 - 12:23 AM

You can stop all of the guessing by using the manual that I recommended earlier. Just use a 6" caliper to measure the bore and stroke. Then go into the table of specifications for cast iron engines. I've used a 40 year old vernier, when mics weren't available to me, to rebuild many engines over the past 40 years. You just have to learn the correct technique for consistant and accurate measurements. Good Luck, Rick
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#12 karel OFFLINE  

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Posted November 03, 2016 - 03:29 AM

Always go over size when doing a ring job.


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#13 crittersf1 OFFLINE  

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Posted November 03, 2016 - 09:35 AM

Guarantee the cylinder isn't round any longer


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#14 Titus OFFLINE  

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Posted November 03, 2016 - 10:45 AM

You can stop all of the guessing by using the manual that I recommended earlier. Just use a 6" caliper to measure the bore and stroke. Then go into the table of specifications for cast iron engines. I've used a 40 year old vernier, when mics weren't available to me, to rebuild many engines over the past 40 years. You just have to learn the correct technique for consistant and accurate measurements. Good Luck, Rick

Nahhhh, come on rick, I love cutting a piece of wood wroing then using a hammer to make it fit, practice does make perfect. I'm just THAT good at hitting the wood into place after all these years of incorrect measuring ;)

 

Remember that if it aint broke, you're not trying :)


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#15 secondtry ONLINE  

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Posted November 03, 2016 - 11:46 AM

What is the condition of the bore? Is the end gap on the ring exactly the same from top to bottom?  Can you detect a ridge at the top of the cylinder? Is it scored? Pictures of what you are dealing with could be a great help. The rings you have are obviously to small for your cylinder. The cause and solution are the only questions. Don


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