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finally got the GT19 into the garage fo some work...


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#1 dodge trucker OFFLINE  

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Posted October 02, 2016 - 10:07 PM

and it has been fighting me tooth and nail today.
I have had this thing right at 2 years already and just digging into it like I should have off the bat... I have done some work here and there in the time I have had it, but have been hesitant to get into it to this extent. Dropping a bolt behind the flywheel when I replaced the fuel pump, has forced the issue though. 

I also had to yank the engine to replace the oil seal under the flywheel, do something with the starter as it would often spin and not engage... and to retrieve that bolt ///  and got some unexpected surprises when I got it into the garage.

First one was that the dam mice have attacked it and packed the shroud and fins TIGHT.... as many tins and screws are on it I cannot see where they got in at. it has sat outside behind the shed and next to the attached garage since Spring, I have run it a couple times since to move a trailer around. and I know it wasn't that way when I pulled the heads off to decarbon them right after I brought it home from storage this spring.

 

then hoe much of a PITA that it was to get the 2 front mount bolts off, no room for a ratchet between the axle and frame

the shop vac, the drill, the air wand, the Dremel and th 1/4-20 Heli coil kit got plenty of exercise today....

2 bolts snapped that hold various tin to the block and one of the heads drilled out (off center) then used the Dremel to grind the shell of the stub out and "center" the hole so that the heli coil could go into th ight spot.... had about 2 threads sticking out in the hole for the tin behind the starter, I tried MIG welding a nut on probably 8 times before the bolt stub sheared off flush with the block then I had to drill, Dremel and Heli coil that hole too....

I had previously expelled about 4 cans of Brake clean as best as I could to clean  it out w/o pulling the shroud (and therefore the engine) the mess left from that blown seal back when I did the head gaskets.... this time once I blew and vacuumed out the mouse house the best I could, I took the longblock outside and got the power washer out and went to town on it.....

I never did find the bolt that I dropped behind the flywheel when I previously replaced the fuel pump (may have sucked it up with the mouse house?) but I did find a #10-24X3/4 stray machine screw behind the stator... 

and I did discover 2 magnets stuck to the stator instead of the flywheel when I got the flywheel off and had a 3d magnet come loose while I was clamping and JB welding the 1st 2 back on....

because of having to clamp and hold the magnets until the JB weld dries there was no chance of getting it back together today.... I don't have room for another project scattered in the garage at the moment....

 

  I have a 360 (5.9 Magnum) Dodge motor partially reassembled as we speak in there too, got stopped on that one in my tracks because I discovered yesterday while assembling that, that the machine shop pressed the piston and rod for 1 cylinder "backwards"-- with the arrow on the piston facing forward, the match marks on the rod face the inside of the crankcase instead of the outside. so I gotta hit the machine shop after work tomorrow so they can correct their mistake and that job can continue.....got get that swapped into my Durango before snow flies....  after 258K the original engine is "tired"

 

I have  a brand new starter that I got in a pile of other parts that I wasn't wanting to use on this machine, but I do not want to pull this engine again unless/until it blows.... the original starter is dragging and the bendix is also hanging up.... the only difference between this starter and the original (both genuine OEM Kohler) is that the original had the hot terminal out the back, this one has the hot terminal out the side, hopefully the terminal doesn't hit on the PTO linkage that sits in the frame alongside the starter.... gonna have to mock that one up before I finish putting all the tin back onto the engine.

 

once this is all done, then I gotta figure out the interlock garbage so I can delete my work a round jumpers...

 

and I gotta ask; on the stator, what ohm reading should I have between the 2 AC terminals with it on the bench? ever since I dropped that fuel pump bolt, I have not been able to put the fuse for the PTO's on because it would blow "instantly" if I did.  If it needs a stator I want to replace it now while it is apart but don't want to spend the money "just because"....

I can't wait though to really put this machine thru its paces with 19HP and power steering

 

I also modified the sleeve hitch that I got for this thing quite a bit.... new draft arms and a solid 1-1/4X 2-1/2" draw bar drilled for a 2" hitch ball (3/4" shank) and a 5/8" hole for use as a regular sleeve hitch...gonna build a true 3 point for it eventually.  


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#2 shorty ONLINE  

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Posted October 03, 2016 - 04:59 AM

Man, that sounds like a frustrating day of wrenching. I have a M 18 that is the same deal with the bolts on the tin work. I keep pushing it off cause I am not ready to go through what you already did.
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#3 Alc ONLINE  

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Posted October 03, 2016 - 05:31 AM

It stinks drilling out broken bolts :(   I always have trouble with removing broken  rusted bolts . Hope you find out the fuse blowing problem


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#4 shorty ONLINE  

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Posted October 03, 2016 - 05:41 AM

If the fuse only blows for the pto, did you check that circuit for a short?
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#5 dodge trucker OFFLINE  

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Posted October 03, 2016 - 06:02 AM

If the fuse only blows for the pto, did you check that circuit for a short?

with the fuse that blows which never happened until I dropped that fuel pump bolt, I can't run the lights or either PTO.

It blows as soon as I touch the terminals of the fuse to the terminals of the holder let alone being able to be able to actually push the fuse in or even have time to reach the knob.... ever since that dropped bolt. so I have been running the machine without that fuse and just useing it as a tow mule, charging the battery with a battery charger a few times throughout the summer.... I'd like it to charge itself again once I reinstall the engine.


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#6 shorty ONLINE  

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Posted October 03, 2016 - 04:20 PM

Got ya, that would be frustrating.

#7 dodge trucker OFFLINE  

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Posted October 03, 2016 - 05:50 PM

on the starter; anyone know if the "hot" terminal coming out the side of the starter cap instead of out the back will be an issue with clearance or will it arc out?



#8 Billy M ONLINE  

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Posted October 04, 2016 - 09:42 AM

Yes, it was an issue with mine on my GT17.  I took my brand new starter apart and relocated the terminal to the back of the starter.  I plugged the old terminal hole with a rubber vacuum hose cap.  It works great.

 

Here is the thread where I was working on it...

 

http://gardentractor...starter-bendix/


Edited by Billy M, October 04, 2016 - 09:44 AM.

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#9 dodge trucker OFFLINE  

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Posted October 04, 2016 - 12:29 PM

Great.... I am glad that you went through it before me and are telling me about it but not crazy about the answer.
This starter is brand new NOS Kohler that I got with a pile of other parts that a guy had listed on Craigslist a while back, leftovers from the golf course that he works at....
I do have one off of a Magnum single that is the same except for that it's about an inch shorter than the original one that I took off of this machine and the hot terminal does come out the end instead of the side. I had that one rebuilt at the local starter shop and it originally had the terminal out the side
They replaced the end cap and said that this style was all that they could get, i couldn't use that starter on the engine it came from because of this.,.
They replaced the end cap because they said they could not get the bushings separate any more.
I think the original starter from the KT19 needs bushings because of the way it seems to drag while spinning.

#10 dodge trucker OFFLINE  

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Posted October 04, 2016 - 12:34 PM

I am trying to figure out when I can go get the one I won on eBay on Ohio a fee days ago (there is a thread on it in this forum). I also have a line on a rough s16H in the next town over. These tractors seem to be coming out of the woodwork but none have any attachments--no decks, no snow blades or blowers no tillers nothing.
I originally got the gt19 as a yard mule but now it seems that all i can find thats all they're good for unless I can start figuring out how to adapt attachments from other machines to fit them.

Edited by dodge trucker, October 04, 2016 - 12:36 PM.


#11 dodge trucker OFFLINE  

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Posted October 04, 2016 - 08:55 PM

OK now question again on the starter... I have 3 of them for a Magnum. all OEM Kohler.

Starter 1; the original from the KT19; works when it wants to, sounds draggy and sometimes it "false starts"--spins but will not engage the flywheel. hot terminal out the back.

Starter 2; Brand new NOS Kohler, about the thickness of the rear brush cap shorter  overall, than Starter 1; hot terminal out the side.

Starter 3; came from a single cyl Magnum (can't remember if it was a M12 or M14)  I took it to the local starter shop and had gone thru; they replaced the brush cap because they claim that the bushings they have gotten recently do not fit the old caps right and for the cost of the cap with new brushes it's too close to the price of new brushes and bushings anyway; originally this starter had the hot out the side, but new cap is hot out the back; which makes it un usable on the single cyl magnum because it now hits the dipstick tube...  they claim "only style available". This starter is yet another "thickness of a brush cap" shorter than Starter 1.  All bolt up exactly the same....

Stay with me here a minute... this may get confusing....

the hour meter shows almost 1800, though the engine runs great; it is a KT Series II... I have put some $$ into it within the last 4 operating hours; rebuilt carb, new points condenser, head gaskets, flywheel side oil seal, crankcase breather element, and fuel pump (metal body ACDelco pump)

 

The starter is a royal pain to get to on these engines and tractors, engine has to come out to replace...

Starter 1 is showing signs of being on its way out.... I want something that will last the rest of this engine's life so I don't think that I necessarily need to put a brand new one on/ though that would be the best "bet" ("starter 2")  I plan to eventually rebuild this one but for now it goes to the shelf...

 

Starter 3 is freshly rebuilt but shorter than the original (so therefore probably less powerful than the original in good shape)

Think this one will have enough "balls" to do the job, on what is probably a tiring, worn out twin????  hopefully being fresh internally, I am thinking it should (fingers crossed)  do the experts agree or no?



#12 KennyP ONLINE  

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Posted October 05, 2016 - 05:42 AM

I would think that thickness wouldn't be an issue, especially on a rebuilt starter. You can put the starter on and 'bench test' it before installing the engine.


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#13 dodge trucker OFFLINE  

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Posted October 05, 2016 - 06:08 AM

it isn't thickness but overall length. meaning that a shorter case, armature and field coils within would be expected to put out less power than a  longer one....



#14 Billy M ONLINE  

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Posted October 05, 2016 - 08:41 AM

Decisions, decisions! 

 

My 2 cents...

Whatever you do...make sure you are installing a new bendix on whatever starter you are putting on it.  The rubber in the original starter bendix on these is pretty aged now.

 

If you have the skills to take the starter apart and inspect the brushes, bushings, etc., do that and go from there.  If the starter motor internals look good, I would be comfortable with it.  The starter motors usually outlast the bendix, unless it's in an environment with a lot of starting & stopping of the engine.  Plus, if your engine does indeed have a lot of hours on it, the compression should be a little lower and easier to start anyways. 

 

If all else fails, ship me the starter with the post out the side.  I can relocate it to the back for you.  It only takes about a ½ hour with the right tools.  PM me if you need any pointers to tackle the project yourself.

 

Billy


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#15 dodge trucker OFFLINE  

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Posted October 05, 2016 - 12:13 PM

I should be able to do it, I have rebuilt starters and alternators before, but I sent starter #3 in to be done when I did because somehow I had a case of"all thumbs" at the time that I pulled that one apart and couldn't keep the spring loaded brushes back and slip the cap over the commutator part of the armature that day, and got frustrated.... not something I hadn't seen or done before that day....




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