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#16 bfoster OFFLINE  

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Posted September 29, 2016 - 10:26 AM

Thanks Dr. Bolens. I will do the end play adjustment tonight to see what that does as the right wheel is a little wobbly which seems to indicate it needs the adjustment.

 

Boyscout 862 I had no idea about the swap at Zagray Farm in Colechester, I will have to see if I can check that out this weekend. I'd really like to get ahold of a plow blade for this winter and need to locate an intake elbow for the carburetor, I currently have a PVC setup configured to fit a B&S air filter on. I hear you on taking it easy on the locking pin, I just gave it a few gentle taps and didn't want to get carried away so will let pb and time do the rest.

 

Glgrumpy, I really think the keys and pins are in place for the following reason. When the transmission is in neutral and I push the tractor around it still turns the brake drum on the front end of the transmission case, which indicates that the axle is turning (right hub locking pin is in and left wheel diff lock is seized), and so is the worm wheel on the axle shaft, the worm shaft and therefore the brake drum on the end of the worm shaft.

 

Thank you for the assistance and input. I'll let you know what I find after the end play adjustment.

 

Bill


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#17 boyscout862 ONLINE  

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Posted September 29, 2016 - 01:23 PM

Thanks Dr. Bolens. I will do the end play adjustment tonight to see what that does as the right wheel is a little wobbly which seems to indicate it needs the adjustment.

 

Boyscout 862 I had no idea about the swap at Zagray Farm in Colechester, I will have to see if I can check that out this weekend. I'd really like to get ahold of a plow blade for this winter and need to locate an intake elbow for the carburetor, I currently have a PVC setup configured to fit a B&S air filter on. I hear you on taking it easy on the locking pin, I just gave it a few gentle taps and didn't want to get carried away so will let pb and time do the rest.

 

Glgrumpy, I really think the keys and pins are in place for the following reason. When the transmission is in neutral and I push the tractor around it still turns the brake drum on the front end of the transmission case, which indicates that the axle is turning (right hub locking pin is in and left wheel diff lock is seized), and so is the worm wheel on the axle shaft, the worm shaft and therefore the brake drum on the end of the worm shaft.

 

Thank you for the assistance and input. I'll let you know what I find after the end play adjustment.

 

Bill

You have 3 swaps left this season. Zagray is biggest on Saturday morning and is located on RT 85, just south of the Hebron town line. A plow should be under $125(i've picked up a couple much cheaper by shoping around). Some times the scrap yards will have GT plows for sale. My local place in Moosup, does occassionally. There will be a swap on 09OCT16 in Brooklyn. The final Swap will be in Pllainfield on 15OCT16.

 

While working on the tractor, inspect carefully for worn keys because they will cause big headaches later. Download the entire shop manual. There was a tube frame mower deck on CL last week. Good Luck, Rick


Edited by boyscout862, September 29, 2016 - 01:26 PM.


#18 bfoster OFFLINE  

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Posted September 29, 2016 - 01:39 PM

Boyscout862,

 

What do you mean "look for worn keys", I just want to be sure I follow you here.

 

Do you mean shaft keys, like in way of the hubs?

 

I really appreciate the heads up about the swaps and rough idea on snow plow budget.

 

Bill



#19 boyscout862 ONLINE  

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Posted September 29, 2016 - 01:54 PM

Boyscout862,

 

What do you mean "look for worn keys", I just want to be sure I follow you here.

 

Do you mean shaft keys, like in way of the hubs?

 

I really appreciate the heads up about the swaps and rough idea on snow plow budget.

 

Bill

There should be shear keys on the axle hubs, in the PTO, and the shaft at the front of the trans axle. Worn keys will damage the key way and make it all FUBAR. Preventative maintenance can save alot of time and money. Lube the stearing gears well. I've been looking for the manuals for you. Hub adjustment: http://gardentractor...lay-adjustment/  ,  Shop Manual: http://gardentractor...anual-552875-1/  , and the Owner's Manual: http://gardentractor...-owners-manual/ . There are other manuals that you will want to download but the site usually limits to 3 per day. Check the attachments interchangeability booklet next. You have a great tractor there once it is fixed up. There are a couple on CL also but are over priced in my opinion. Ask more questions when you've got 'em, we are all in this together. Good Luck, Rick


Edited by boyscout862, September 29, 2016 - 01:55 PM.

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#20 bfoster OFFLINE  

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Posted September 30, 2016 - 08:49 AM

Rick,

 

All shear keys appear to be in place.

 

I pulled the left and right rear wheels off yesterday. The locking pin on the right side is still stuck but ill keep working on that to see if it can be drawn out in time. I just greased up the wheel hub and put it back on so things would be easier to remove in future. every moving part on this rig is bone dry and hasn't seen a grease gun or oil can in what seems like a decade or more.

 

The left wheel came off, as did the differential adjusting nut, spring washers and crown nut. I think the drive cone is seized to the coupling on the axle shaft (it is keyed to it but my understanding is it supposed to be driven in slightly by the adjusting nut to apply pressure to the inner face of the wheel hub, to lock it up) and its seized to the inside of the wheel hub so the locking differential is locked. with the adjusting nut backed off, the diff is essentially locked when driving or pushing, or lifting the tractor and rotating the tires. I made a puller and was able to pull the hub along the axle 3/8" along with the coupling and drive cone along. I didn't want to go any further and make a mess or trouble, so then followed the end play adjustment process. However, hand tightening the crown nut per the manual will not draw the hub back in to the original location so I mechanically tightened it back up, backing off after. This was the only way I could drive the coupling, cone and wheel hub back to the original location. Once driven back I went ever so slightly further and the rear end did seem to lock up. With some giggling I was still able to move the axle though. I essentially followed the end play adjustment from here on, but since it was taking a tool to tighten the crown nut to achieve binding I stopped at that and just put it all back together.

 

I pushed the tractor a bit and it was able to move around, but once in awhile it did seem to locked up and I was not able to move it with the transmission in neutral. So maybe it just needs more end play adjustment.

 

It also seems like there is some backlash in the worm gear, I can rock the tractor a bit before it binds up on either side, is that normal too? I have to think it is especially with something this old.

 

I think go now end play adjustment is something I should put off until I can get the drive cone to free itself from the wheel hub and the locking pin removed from the right hub. ie: I need to be sure these mechanisms for locking up the differential are free, otherwise I can't really tell if the differential is working or not. I want to be able to jack up the rear end and see the wheels drive in opposite directions to verify this.

 

Does anyone have a suggestion for freeing up the drive cone in the left rear hub? I'm worried about using PB and screwing up the seals.

 

Bill

 

 



#21 ClassicBolens ONLINE  

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Posted September 30, 2016 - 09:47 AM

Use liberal amounts of PB and don't worry about the seals. The seals are readily available and easy to replace. Unfortunately, we're all fighting 50 years of rust and neglect on many of these machines. Adding heat may be the next step, if the PB doesn't do it alone. Just have patience and allow things to soak for a while.
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#22 Bruce Dorsi OFFLINE  

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Posted September 30, 2016 - 05:38 PM

 I think the drive cone is seized to the coupling on the axle shaft (it is keyed to it but my understanding is it supposed to be driven in slightly by the adjusting nut to apply pressure to the inner face of the wheel hub, to lock it up) and its seized to the inside of the wheel hub.   If my memory is working, I believe the tapered cone is bronze, so it should not be seized to the cast-iron hub or steel sleeve.

 

What I have seen is the steel sleeve crack and expand, preventing the cone from sliding on the sleeve.

 

I made a puller and was able to pull the hub along the axle 3/8" along with the coupling and drive cone along. I didn't want to go any further and make a mess or trouble, If the sleeve moved on the axle, this may be the easiest way to remove the sleeve and the cone, clean & check everything, then re-assemble. so then followed the end play adjustment process. However, hand tightening the crown nut per the manual will not draw the hub back in to the original location  (If all parts are cleaned and deburred the pieces should move easily.)  so I mechanically tightened it back up, backing off after. This was the only way I could drive the coupling, cone and wheel hub back to the original location.  The left-hand wheel hub has two square tangs which engage a side gear in the differential.  ...If it is moved outward, the tangs disengage from the gear, so care is required to re-install the hub.

 

Once driven back I went ever so slightly further and the rear end did seem to lock up. With some giggling I was still able to move the axle though. I essentially followed the end play adjustment from here on, but since it was taking a tool to tighten the crown nut to achieve binding I stopped at that and just put it all back together.

 

I pushed the tractor a bit and it was able to move around, but once in awhile it did seem to locked up and I was not able to move it with the transmission in neutral. So maybe it just needs more end play adjustment.

 

It also seems like there is some backlash in the worm gear, I can rock the tractor a bit before it binds up on either side, is that normal too? I have to think it is especially with something this old.  Some backlash is normal, but making a lot of turns with the differential locked puts excessive stress on internal components.

 

I think go now end play adjustment is something I should put off until I can get the drive cone to free itself from the wheel hub and the locking pin removed from the right hub. ie: I need to be sure these mechanisms for locking up the differential are free, I agree !!  otherwise I can't really tell if the differential is working or not. I want to be able to jack up the rear end and see the wheels drive in opposite directions to verify this.

 

Does anyone have a suggestion for freeing up the drive cone in the left rear hub? I'm worried about using PB and screwing up the seals.  I don't think PB will hurt the seals, but as already said, it may be a good idea to replace the seals while everything is apart.  ....If you don't want to do the seals now, cover the threads on the axle end to prevent damage to the seal while removing/reinstalling the hub.


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#23 ericjr16 ONLINE  

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Posted September 30, 2016 - 07:02 PM

Nice save!! Looks good so far! :)



#24 bfoster OFFLINE  

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Posted September 30, 2016 - 09:52 PM

Ok, update.

I was able to pull the left Hub off and will replace both oils seals now since its been leaking anyway. With the hub off per suggestions I should be able to soak the hub, come, collar and remove it all, it's soaking tonight.

How do others remove the seals from the gear case? I tried a screw driver but based on other seals I've tried this is a no go with such a big deal. I'm concerned about damaging the seal seating surface or the axle in the process. Any advice welcome.

The bad news, as noted the hub locks into the differential and once removed I found the thrust bearing outer race plate was broken. I'm pretty certain based on scoring and some wear I didn't do it but it's been this way at least awhile, either way I now need to locate either a new thrust bearing assembly or just an outer race plate. Please anyone, any sources on this one? Or is it toast due to availability?


Edited by bfoster, September 30, 2016 - 10:05 PM.

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#25 Bolens 1000 ONLINE  

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Posted October 01, 2016 - 08:28 AM

The big seal can be removed by drilling a small hole or two into the seal and threading some sheetmetal screws into it that will give you something to grab and pull out.   The inner 1185295 seal can be driven out by a screwdriver or small flat punch Just be careful not to hit the sides.

 

I seen your e-mail you sent and sent you some more info on parts availability.  :thumbs:

 

 

 

Found a quick video:

 


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#26 29 Chev ONLINE  

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Posted October 01, 2016 - 08:34 AM

The large seal in the left axle can usually be removed with a large pry bar.  Another option as posted by Bolens 1000 is to drill a small hole in the side of the seal, screw a sheet metal screw into the hole, clamp a pair of vise grips on the screw and pry against the jaw of the vise grips.  The small seal inside the hub can usually be driven out with a punch or screw driver.  To prevent damage to the seal lip you can use electrical tape to cover threads and sharp edges while you install the seals.  Check with one of the site sponsors as they may have new or used bearings and washers.  Attached are a few pictures of my 1050 which may help you.

Attached Thumbnails

  • 18 Hole Drilled In Seal For Screw.jpg
  • 19 Screw Vise Grips And Pry Bar To Remove Seal.jpg
  • 20 Right Seal Removed.jpg
  • 35 Left Outer Axle Seal And Thrust Wahers And Bearing Fallen Down.jpg
  • 36 Seal Removed And Checking Thrust Wahers And Bearing.jpg
  • 37 Left Inner Axle Seal Removed From Hub.jpg
  • 38 Left Inner Seal.jpg
  • 21 Right Axle Shaft Wrapped With Electrical Tape And Seal Instllaed.jpg
  • 36 Seal Removed And Checking Thrust Wahers And Bearing.jpg
  • 39 Left Inner Seal Installed.jpg
  • 40 Left Outer Seal Installed.jpg
  • 41 Cone And Collar Cleaned Up.jpg
  • 42 Electrical Tape Over Threads On Axle.jpg
  • 43 Left Hub Installed And Tape Removed.jpg
  • 44 Install Hub Washer.jpg
  • 45 Installer Collar and Inner Key.jpg
  • 46 Install Cone And Outer Key.jpg
  • 47 Install Left Axle Nut.jpg

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#27 bfoster OFFLINE  

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Posted October 01, 2016 - 08:44 PM

Thanks guys, the tips and pictures are always a huge help to a novice.

 

I did get the big seal out finally, if destroyed in the process.

 

The hub is off, but alas the seal, collar and diff locking cone are still locked in. I looked over the keyways and I don't see any splits or obvious indication the collar has swollen. Still soaking it and will see what can be done. The challenge I see is in trying to punch the seal or collar/cone from the transmission end of the hub, is its very hard to get ahold of an edge of them because the ID of the hub from the transmission end is very close in ID to the collar ID.

 

I have a hard time understanding why the cone and collar are seized to the hub, but can only assume its been left locked tight for soo long and/or a toll was used to drive the locking diff nut and therefore cone into the hub.

 

29 Chev, great pictures of the process and what to expect. I was surprised to find the outer race of my thrust bearing in pieces and the actual thrust bearing is not flat or in plane. its almost cone shaped with the ID pushed into the trans and the OD out. its not obviously original also because its not consistent, its obviously distorted, I'll add pictures tomorrow.

 

Bolens 1000, I'll follow up via email as I try to figure out the scope of what I need.

 

Thank you all for the experience and support.

 

Bill



#28 bfoster OFFLINE  

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Posted October 07, 2016 - 08:14 AM

29 Chev, how did you remove the right rear axle oil seal with the axle still in place?

 

I'm still working on getting the locking cone and collar out of the left rear hub, its seized good. its been soaking for a week and I've been hitting it from the differential end with a brass rod/hammer on the washer behind the cone/collar and its not working. I need to make a puller of some kind to draw it out, I think that's the only way it will work.

 

Bill



#29 29 Chev ONLINE  

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Posted October 07, 2016 - 08:35 AM

29 Chev, how did you remove the right rear axle oil seal with the axle still in place?

 

Drilled small hole in seal, screwed in sheet metal screw and pried out using vise grips and pry bar as per pictures once the hub was removed.  Sometimes the right hub gets rusted to the axle shaft and can be stubborn to remove.

 

I wonder if someone has done something to the brass cone or replaced it with something else to try and make the tractor a solid rear axle for pulling on the left hub - just a thought.  If you can find a deep socket (or something else) that will fit in and just catch the lip of the cone (just slightly larger than the rear axle shaft on the O.D.)  you should be able to use a press to press it out - normally the brass cone comes out easily.  Work safely and wear eye protection.

Attached Thumbnails

  • 6 Right Axle Slid Out to Create Space For Puller.jpg
  • 7 Remove Right Cotter Pin.jpg
  • 8 Remove Right Nut Wahsers And Outer Hub.jpg
  • 9 Right Inner Hub.jpg
  • 10 Ready To Pull Right Inner Hub.jpg
  • 11 Hub Starting to Move And Nut Removed.jpg
  • 12 Hub And Key Removed.jpg
  • 13 Inner Hub And Axle Key.jpg
  • 14 Crud Inside Inner Hub.jpg
  • 15 Inner Washer With Wear Step.jpg
  • 16 Inner Washer Other Side Flat.jpg
  • 17 Right Axle Cleaned Up.jpg
  • 18 Hole Drilled In Seal For Screw.jpg
  • 19 Screw Vise Grips And Pry Bar To Remove Seal.jpg
  • 20 Right Seal Removed.jpg


#30 bfoster OFFLINE  

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Posted October 07, 2016 - 08:41 AM

29 chev, I just saw the picture after posting where you used a screw/tools to pry out the seal. thanks for the pictures, they are helpful, but I have to look at them all. :)

 

I will try pressing it out. I just need to get setup to properly put some steady pressure on it. I think it will come out, it just needs an even application of steady force. The tapping just isn't going to do it this time imho.






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