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needing some help on my 1972 444 Black Knight


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#1 SNUFFY OFFLINE  

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Posted September 27, 2016 - 10:56 AM

Got started tinkering with it yesterday to see if the engine will run at all. Had to get the solenoid, regulator off Ebay and apparently the solenoid is no good. Went ahead and crossed out the solenoid to see it the starter- gen would even turn...and it did pretty good but the Blades on the mowing deck are engaged. Dug around and found the actuator lever for the PTO unhooked and the hardware it attaches to wallowed out completely and a groove cut halfway thru the rod. I tried to move it enough to disengage the PTO so I could try the engine again. Tried the engine again mainly to see if it had disengaged PTO and danged if the motor start ...with the PTO still engaged. Got serious noise and banging going on in the deck so I shut it back down.

I got this thing at an auction of a well known collectors estate and it must have been thrown together somewhat just to get it to the auction....no electrics  etc.

I can fix the PTO lever stuff but I think I actuated it enough to disengage..but it didn`t.

I`ve been working on a Powerking  2414 with basically the same engine...so while I had the electrics setup fresh in my mind I thought I would get on the Case. It`s great to know the engine seems to be good. There are some differences in the engine set-up in the way that mount to the frame though. The engine in the Case is loose enough to move a lot easily by hand. The parts diagrams I have found doesn`t actually show how the engine connects to the frame. Of the 4 bolts showing bolting thru the crankcase to block....2 are longer than the other 2 ....going thru the frame on the 2 longer ??

Any help would be appreciated.



#2 gopher OFFLINE  

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Posted September 27, 2016 - 05:38 PM

The motor attaches to two rails that straddle the frame.They hook to frame by 4 rubber isolator mounts.



#3 glgrumpy OFFLINE  

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Posted September 27, 2016 - 08:47 PM

If you have the manual pto clutch, think they have discs which may be rusted to the slip surfaces of same unit. Not sure you can run a sharp edge or blade into the area w/out wrecking it or not. Should be a big nut on shaft area that has big spring and it gets the whole clutch to have pressure when in use. Might try to back it out or all the way loose and see if it can break free turning it on/off or such. Should all unbolt from engine too to rebuild and have disconnected anyway. The pump on other side will still drive tractor then.  Many K engines have what is called the "small pan" and no feet sticking out on them to mount with. Bolts go right up into the pan into block from bottom side. Most like this used floating mount plates that attach to tractor on rubber isolators to keep vibration down and quieter. Cub Cadet, Ford and many others used this system.  Don't mess with PK engine, trying to switch it, just FIX it for the PK and be happy! :smilewink:


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#4 cmn135 OFFLINE  

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Posted September 28, 2016 - 05:31 PM

The motor attaches to two rails that straddle the frame.They hook to frame by 4 rubber isolator mounts.


You sure they did motor mounts on a 72? I have a 71 444 and it bolts directly to the frame. My 74 224 has motor mounts. But I'm not sure what year they started using them.


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#5 gopher OFFLINE  

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Posted September 28, 2016 - 11:18 PM

I stand corrected not sure of the change from frame to isolators. I was going off his motor moving easily by hand symptom of failing isolator rubbers. Does your 71 have rubber pads under frame?

 

You sure they did motor mounts on a 72? I have a 71 444 and it bolts directly to the frame. My 74 224 has motor mounts. But I'm not sure what year they started using them.


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#6 cmn135 OFFLINE  

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Posted September 29, 2016 - 07:42 AM

Nope. It literally bolts directly to the frame and according to the parts manual that's the way it's supposed to be. There was no rubber padding which is why they had balance gears in the earlier models to compensate.

#7 SNUFFY OFFLINE  

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Posted September 30, 2016 - 07:53 AM

Thanks guys for the help.....I just wanted to see if this engine would run at all before getting into it too much. I`m piddling with it while waiting on paint to dry on the PK......and stuff to come in I`ve ordered too.  

Don`t worry Grump..... PK motor is staying where it`s at.....decided to go with the electric fuel pump on it.....no more fuel in CCase !!

 

Really got too many irons in the fire right now  but need to get rid of some stuff before cold weather sets in.....44 here the last 2 morns......95 last week.....TN weather !



#8 cmn135 OFFLINE  

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Posted September 30, 2016 - 09:15 AM

Which electric fuel pump is it? You really need the 7 GPH flow rate at 1-2 psi delivery pressure. Kirk Engines sells one. Most of the other models are too much pressure for these small engines and will flood the bowl


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#9 SNUFFY OFFLINE  

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Posted October 04, 2016 - 06:09 AM

It is an AirTex and I can`t find enough room to mount it anywhere close to carb. I`m sending it back. It has a 2 1/2 -4/1/2 lb and 14gal flow I think. Just way to big. Not much room in there. May go with plastic replacement....A-1 Miller has rebuilt metal but haven`t been able to reach him.

 

Grump the one thing about the all Hydraulic Case`s is they ain`t no rust....there`s a nice coating of hydraulic fluid on everything...LOL !! No wonder they last so long !!


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#10 cmn135 OFFLINE  

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Posted October 04, 2016 - 08:50 AM

Not sure what kind of pricing you were looking at but Kirk Engines has a nice one for around $50 that works perfectly on our motors. Another note on install typically these pumps push better than they pull. You are better off mounting it to the frame near the gas tank than up close to the carb. This also eliminates or reduces the chances of vapor locking. Just sharing what I've read while researching these units

#11 SNUFFY OFFLINE  

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Posted October 05, 2016 - 07:28 AM

CMN....the pump on the Case is working apparently....and I will watch closely to see if it does the same thing as the pump on the PowerKing....It dumped 2 quarts of gas in the crankcase while running perfectly. Now the PKs tank is above the engine while the Case is on the same level but the tank outlet has to be below the carb and pump. I`m amazed that the Case started so easily....probably didn`t crank it more than 10 seconds all together. I hope the pump is good cause the alternative is a plastic pump or the electric pump. There really isn`t a good place to put the big Electrics on the PK....I `ve looked at several and all are big and would require long distance hosing. Thanks for info !

Just checked out Kirks...will be adding to my list ! Thanks


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#12 SNUFFY OFFLINE  

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Posted June 13, 2017 - 08:17 AM

Update on the Black Knight.....It has found a new home near Paducah Ky. I had a conversation (actually several convos) with a nice collector who decided he had enough BK`s already and had a couple of buddies interested. I never heard from them  and about a year later got call out of the blue from another friend of the collector. After a nice chat we worked out the deal .....the collector friend picked up the BK on his way back from the Show in Gray Tn . Easy deal and hope Aaron is happy with his BK.

I got busy trying to move a couple of Ford tractors I don`t need and get back to work detailing out the PK and working on the little Ford LGT 14D and really needed the space where the BK was occupying. I am glad for the experience with Cases and understand why people love `em .....really well engineered and built to last.

I`ve had a couple of health issues show up since I retired in January and am  working thru them...but really need to finish up some projects and the Case just wasn`t  in the mix. So moved it on to someone with the interest.


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