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Another 2 steps forward.....and

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Posted September 19, 2016 - 09:27 AM

Well I finally got to the point of seeing if the 14 hp Kohler on my PK 2414 will run.....first step....hook the batt ...as soon as the second lead (ground ) touches post the starter starts cranking.......bad solenoid....replace. Getting no fire at points or plug....you tube testing coil....numbers wacky so install new coil. Still no spark....check all new wiring and new switch....all right according to 3 different wiring diagrams I have. Decide to go most basic and hook positive lead from coil directly to positive on batt.......and we`ve got good fire at points and plug. Brand new switch....so go to looking for a empty hot terminal on switch not already hooked to something.....hot when key in start position. Hook the pos coil wire to it. ...got fire !! I`ve set the grill back in position to set the gas tank in place with new hose, filter and cleaned tank

Wanted to see if the old fuel pump was working before trying to fire....lo and behold we got gas. Hook the hose to the new carb and back it out of garage to see if it will run. It took an appropriate amount of time to fill the carb and blew some stuff out of the temp exhaust and fired right up !!!! Yee Haw !!!!  No smoke even though I had put some oil in cylinder a while back. I only put a quart of gas in the tank cause I knew it was coming back off for the next phase of build. Motor pretty well purred (well as much as it can purr with a Zoomy exhaust pipe ) while I tinkered with the governor/idle settings... Revved up good just let it idle and played with it till it ran out of gas after about 30 minutes.

All right !!!  After rebuilding Tranny, installing  new clutch and throw out....cleaning and painting various parts and finally seeing the engine will run ...very satisfying to say the least.  No telling how many years it has been since it ran last.....

Next phase was conjuring up brackets for throttle and choke and mounting seat temporarily and then trying out the Tranny.

I get to that point and the thing will not start. I had to pull grill section back off  to fix up the throttle/choke stuff and the carb to put the engine sheet metal back on behind the carb.

I didn`t fool with the wiring any and was seeing some gas in the throat of carb after a lot of cranking. Thought maybe the float in carb had got stuck when I took it loose to replace the engine sheet metal. Tapped on it a little bit but still wouldn`t run ...Decided to check spark ....a few times you could see a very weak spark on points and and plug and that finally quit too.  I assumed that the  new coil had gone bad and replaced it.....Still nothing. Even hooking positive coil wire to batt and nothing. Testing shows power to coil and points though ...

The terminal on the switch that I had plugged into when it ran was the "L" ...original diagram called for the pos coil wire to hook to "M" but it didn`t have any fire there at all when using the switch in any position . I guess I assumed the diagram was wrong for this switch because it ran fine on "L".

Now I`m not so sure about any of it now. When I was cranking it and it wouldn`t start I thought it was fuel problem for a while....but I went to take the coil loose and it was extremely hot....way too hot to touch.... I`m wondering now if having the Pos coil wire on the "L" terminal on switch that I have messed up the switch. I`m guessing the L is the lights which would have juice all the time and the M (magneto??) terminal only when the coil fired.

Any body with any thoughts would be appreciated.  I`ve got a second new coil , points and coil wires showing juice , but no fire at sparkplug or points even with pos coil wire going to batt...not switch.

Sorry for the long post....don`t know how to explain it for less.

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#2 dthomp17 OFFLINE  



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Posted September 19, 2016 - 09:36 AM

Congratulations!  There is a great feeling of accomplishment to hear an engine running that's been sitting for several years.

#3 propane1 ONLINE  

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Posted September 19, 2016 - 09:56 AM

Points gone out of adjustment on ya. Had points move on me once,after setting them. Bad engine ground to frame. Condenser not grounded.


#4 GWest OFFLINE  



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Posted September 19, 2016 - 10:04 AM

Will guess you have the pop can size coil with a set of points. If so the ignition switch with an M terminal is the wrong switch as it is for magneto ignition. Battery ignition usually requires a switch with an I (eye) terminal to power the ignition. (There are exceptions if safety switches are involved)


You need constant battery power to the battery ignition type of coil (+) terminal in the key positions RUN and START.

When the motor is cranking on the starter the voltage at the coil (-) terminal should alternate between 12 volts and 0 volts.

When the points are open 12 volts

When the points are closed 0 volts.

If you have a steady 12 volts at the coil (-) the points are not grounding the coil. They may simply need to be cleaned.



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#5 Bmerf OFFLINE  


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Posted September 19, 2016 - 01:05 PM

I'm not exactly sure, but If an automotive type coil, should there be a ballast resistor? Most points can only handle ~6-7 volts. Any more and the points will burn up. If the points look blue from excessive heat change them. Good luck.


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Posted September 19, 2016 - 04:26 PM

Well guys ....ain`t real sure what I did but its running again. I did check the voltage at the points Garry and was getting 12v all the time ...points open or closed. Back when I started tinkering with this thing I put a little oil in the spark plug hole just  to give the cylinder walls some lube while  I was tinkering. With the exhaust off of it some of the oil would run out the exhaust and right down to the points I tried to keep it wiped off. Only thing I can figure is when it was running the other day the block got hot and some of the oil migrated . I pulled the points and condenser off and sprayed it down with starter fluid and cleaned it up good.

I also decided to try a keyswitch I bought a while back for a Case 444 Black Knight Demonstrator I have. It is a 4 pole type hook up and after jumpering the the connections it had fire to the plug again. I can`t remember the exact sequence that I did this in but I know after I cleaned the points I jumper power to it and was getting the 12v -0 volt like it should. So I ain`t real sure which was the problem and don`t really care !!!!!!!!! I`m thinking the oil may have been the problem ..

 Thanks again guys !!

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#7 shorty ONLINE  



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Posted September 23, 2016 - 05:39 AM

It always feels good to conquer a problem and hear the engine run again.