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What is this diesel two wheel tractor that I bought?


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#1 Doug E. OFFLINE  

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Posted August 17, 2016 - 01:48 PM

Gents,

 

I picked up this diesel tiller recently, and would like to see if anyone has an idea of the make and perhaps the model. 

 

There is no identifying tag left on the tractor.  The Lombardini engine is of course Italian, and the tires are of Italian manufacture, so I am guessing it is made in Italy.  In many respects it resembles the BCS philosophy of their tractors.  The tiller box is detachable, looking like it would take other attachments.  It has a gear box with 4 or 5 positions, and what appears to be a lever to reverse the direction of the either the tiller pto or the wheel drive.  The handle bars can be rotated 180 degrees. 

 

The tractor has either independent brakes or clutches on the wheels.  I'm leaning towards brakes.  There is a tag next to a lever that states "differential lock", with a lock and unlock position, but I am not convinced that the cable actually goes to what could be a differential lock. 

 

The diesel engine is a Lombardini LDA 510, which is a pre 1980 model number of what became the 3LD-510.  I think it is the standard model, which is 9 HP, and weighs about 130 lbs.  The motor is currently stuck.  It is started with a pull cord, and I have not found a compression release on it yet. 

 

There is a second splined PTO shaft above the tiller attachment.  No idea what for, although there are 4 bolt holes around it in the tranny casting. 

 

This is a big beefy unit and very heavy.  For a size reference, the tires are 24" in dia. 

 

The tiller box is 32" wide, and the metal is porcelainized, with many hairline cracks from where the sheetmetal has been impacted by rocks. 

 

There was a hood over the motor, but it is missing. 

 

Does anyone have any idea what this is?  Could it be an early BCS?  Or?

 

I believe one handle bar has a clutch for the PTO, and the other for the drive to the wheels. 

 

Thanks,

 

Doug

 

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#2 chieffan ONLINE  

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Posted August 17, 2016 - 02:08 PM

It does have a lot of BCS similarities.  It could be an early BCS model, probably why it is still going.  Can't wear them out from use, just abuse.



#3 crittersf1 OFFLINE  

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Posted August 17, 2016 - 02:34 PM

.....and neglect



#4 Cvans ONLINE  

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Posted August 17, 2016 - 04:27 PM

Here is some options

https://www.alibaba....4857.0.0.eLFVbU

 

http://www.grillospa.it/g110



#5 chieffan ONLINE  

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Posted August 17, 2016 - 06:33 PM

Sent the link to a friend who is the parts manager for an Outdoor Power business.  BCS has been one of their lines for many years.  He said it very possibly could be as it had a lot of the early BCS designs.  Sure be something interesting to play with.


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#6 Cvans ONLINE  

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Posted August 17, 2016 - 06:42 PM

 

Sure be something interesting to play with.

 

Makes all the right noises and smells too. 



#7 EricFromPa OFFLINE  

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Posted August 17, 2016 - 08:33 PM

That's one Huge LDA 510 14hp single cylinder Diesel engine.3LD510 is 12hp they are slightly smaller.

 

This one looks Almost identical to that one.But has a 12hp 3LD510 and you have no hood.It's Italian made Ferrari 72S.Ignore the 310 in the description lol

 

 

I'm becoming quite the google search Masta lately :rolling: :rolling: :rolling:


Edited by EricFromPa, August 17, 2016 - 08:48 PM.

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#8 Doug E. OFFLINE  

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Posted August 18, 2016 - 09:23 AM

Thanks for the replies.  I ended up watching the u-tube that EricfromPa linked to, and then ended watching quite a few more.  Several tractors looked similar, but none real close.  Still no positive idea what the make is.  From watching the utubes, I can see that there many more diesel tillers made then what we ever see here in the US. 

 

I pulled the pan yesterday after getting some water out before the crank case oil.  The inside was not as bad as I was expecting.  Wish they had stored it under cover.  I pulled the injector, and found a little moisture on the piston.  I'll try to vacuum what I can through the hole for the injector and pour some penetrating oil in to soak. 

 

The seller said they thought the crank had broken, which was why they quit using it.  The crank throw at least is fine.  After thinking about this, I suspect they sheared a key, so that there was no power to the wheels or tiller. 

 

I found that a compression release was an option on this model, and this one does not have it.  There is a rubber plug shaped like a thumb screw on the top of the head, with a passage underneath going to the intake.  The plug has the word start on it.  After much searching, I found instructions that said to fill it up with motor oil if it is hard starting in cold weather.  I guess that is to help seal worn rings to aid compression. 

 

Watching the videos, I saw several of the people start the engines with a pull rope by rocking the engine several times against compression before pulling the engines over.  I found out this is done to pump fuel to the injector before pulling it over.  I have never dealt with a hand start diesel before.  Learned something new. 

 

I think I can salvage the engine.  I'm enjoying working with it regardless.  My wife thinks I am somewhat nuts because I buy broken toys to fix.  She equates it to buying a small child a gift, and having them end up playing with the box instead!

 

Thanks for the comments!

 

Regards,

 

Doug


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#9 Cvans ONLINE  

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Posted August 18, 2016 - 10:42 AM

 She equates it to buying a small child a gift, and having them end up playing with the box instead!

 

And she buys shoes so she can look at them in the closet. What's the difference?


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#10 EricFromPa OFFLINE  

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Posted August 18, 2016 - 02:57 PM

If you can jet the injector nozzle out you should be able to spray PB Blaster or dump some Marvel mystery oil down on top of the piston and also take the intake and exhaust off and spray down the valve stems real good.

 

You might get really lucky and not have to pull the head.



#11 Doug E. OFFLINE  

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Posted August 18, 2016 - 04:02 PM

If you can jet the injector nozzle out you should be able to spray PB Blaster or dump some Marvel mystery oil down on top of the piston and also take the intake and exhaust off and spray down the valve stems real good.

 

 

Thanks Eric,

 

This is what I am trying to do.  The valve stems look pretty good and move freely.  I would prefer not to take the head off if I don't need to as it is also an over head valve engine. 

 

D.



#12 Doug E. OFFLINE  

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Posted August 21, 2016 - 05:30 PM

In looking for something else, I came across this tiller minus motor that is of the same make as my own, but looks to be a different model.  Go figure the chances of finding this by accident!   This one is slightly different in that I can't see if it has a gear box in the tranny case for different gears.  I called and asked about it, but the seller couldn't find any identification on this one either.  There was no motor around for it, diesel or gas.  It appears to have the independent brakes on it also. 

 

Here is the link:  http://phoenix.craig...5741779476.html

 

I got the piston loosened up on mine, and the bore actually looks pretty good.  I need to check the injector for function as well as look at the injector pump.  Might have a chance to try firing it up in a week if those are in reasonable shape.  Big sigh of relief over the condition of the bore!

 

Regards,

 

Doug

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#13 Doug E. OFFLINE  

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Posted August 23, 2016 - 08:43 AM

For those still interested, the tractor appears to be a Ferrari super 72 tractor.  Always thought I would like to have a Ferrari, but this was not quite what I had in mind!

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=BtLFkdRICKk

 

The engine has an in tank filter which I pulled and checked.  Need to see if I can find replacements. 

 

I pulled the injection pump.  The rack that turns the collar that adjusts the amount of fuel injected had enough corrosion that it would not move.  A little penetrating oil and some gentle tapping with a piece of copper got it to move enough to get it out.  The pump plunger and pump barrel look very good, and still had diesel in them.  They were gummed up enough that they would only slowly move.  I'll put the injection pump back together today.  I need to test the injector, the oil pump, set the valves, and I might be ready to test the engine.  The engine looks to be worse from neglect than wear. 

 

Regards,

 

Doug

 

Edit:  I have learned a few more things about this.  I mentioned that it has two PTO shafts coming out the back of the tranny.  The tiller box is attached to the lower on.  I found that they offered an accessory that was a box/trailer mounted on a two wheel axle.  Turns out that the trailer axle was powered  by the top PTO, giving you a 4WD capability.  Neat accessory, but I will not hold my breath about finding one around here! 

 

The tractor in the craigslist ad is a model 71.  I think it is a smaller tractor then mine.  It only has the one PTO.

 

I pulled a cover off behind the engine and found a flat clutch, like an automobile clutch, about 8" in diameter.  Clutch still has about an 1/8" of pad on it.  I can see the output shaft from the engine, and it rotates with the crank, so there is little doubt that the crank is not broken. 


Edited by Doug E., August 23, 2016 - 11:58 AM.

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#14 Doug E. OFFLINE  

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Posted August 30, 2016 - 06:53 PM

Gents,

 

I pop tested the injector, and the results were not up to par.  I suspect the injector got some moisture in it.  The injector will go up to 600 psi and the pressure just leaks off, spitting a stream of diesel out rather than a spray.  I found a new nozzle seat and pintle for it and have them ordered.  I also set the valves.   I picked up some gasket material for the pan gasket. 

 

I pulled the covers off of the transmission, and found water in there too, but no oil.  I will have to replace some ball bearings at the bottom of the tranny.  I have one shift lever moving, and am working on freeing up the other.  Also have the PTO engagement to loosen up. 

 

While I was waiting for the nozzle parts and the penetrating oil to work, I came across a BCS 730 tractor with a snowblower on it.  The tractor looks pretty good, considering it also has been left out side.  This happens too often.  I am working on freeing up the control cables on this one also.  I am replacing the fuel filter, lines, and will check the carb to see if it needs some cleaning.  Everything else is free, and I have compression and spark. 

 

Regards,

 

Doug



#15 Doug E. OFFLINE  

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Posted September 01, 2016 - 11:28 AM

Good morning all,

 

After some searching, I found a source for operating and parts manuals for this tractor. https://www.italiant...s.com/home.html handles parts for North America for European articulated  and two wheel tractors, and has manuals on their website for some models that can be downloaded.  They also handle parts for some European diesel engines, Lombardini included.  Tom has been most helpful with my inquiries. 

 

Just a heads up!

 

Regards,

 

Doug


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