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Which Manual is Correct?


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#1 chieffan ONLINE  

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Posted August 02, 2016 - 07:05 AM

Have a QT 16 first run.  Serial # is 0102241.  I have found 2 different manuals, one a service manual and the other a parts manual.  Manual P-552591-4, on page 23 shows the ignition switch in the  OFF, RUN and START position with internal connections one way.  A Parts manual for this same tractor, 552974-2 on page 17 show the switch in those same positions but different internal connections.  The second manual show an internal connection between B and X in all positions.  The first manual does not show that connection in ANT position.  Which of these two is the correct one?  Both Manuals are in the manuals section of this site.

 

I am thinking that a connection between the B and X in the RUN position may be where the short is when the B+ wire is attached to the reg/rect.  The ignition switch in my tractor makes the connection between the B & X at all times.  Wrong Switch ? ? I tried to get a pic of each page but not that computer savoy to know how to do that.  Any and all suggestions will be appreciated.



#2 Bruce Dorsi OFFLINE  

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Posted August 02, 2016 - 08:27 AM

According to the Parts Manual, all QT-16's used the #1721409 Ignition Switch.

 

The correct operation of the 1721409 switch is as follows:

 

OFF position:  no connections between any terminals

 

RUN position:  A+B (connected) and X+Y (connected)

 

START position: B+S (connected) and X+Y (connected)

 

The #1721409 switches were also used on some of the tube-frame tractors, so I verified the internal connections by looking at several different pages.

 

So, it appears the diagrams in the 552974-2 Service Manual are incorrect, unless a different ignition switch is used, making the Parts Manual incorrect.

 

Doing further investigation, it appears B+X terminals are connected EXTERNAL of the switch, possibly at the switch socket.


Edited by Bruce Dorsi, August 02, 2016 - 08:38 AM.

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#3 chieffan ONLINE  

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Posted August 02, 2016 - 09:02 AM

The B and X terminals are connected by a jumper at the socket.  The original switch was shorting out internally.  Using a switch that has internal connections as shown in the parts manual.  This should be correct due to the external jumper.  Am I right on this?



#4 Paulgo OFFLINE  

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Posted August 02, 2016 - 09:30 AM

My book shows the same as what Bruce detailed. X keeps B hot via jumper. Switch should be internally as he describes.



#5 Paulgo OFFLINE  

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Posted August 02, 2016 - 09:40 AM

The QT17 was also designated 1666. It used a different switch due to engine (Kohler with magneto)  not having battery ignition.

 

If it isn't the switch, then it has to be a bad wire or wrong hookup on reg. Doesn't it?


Edited by Paulgo, August 02, 2016 - 09:49 AM.


#6 ClassicBolens ONLINE  

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Posted August 02, 2016 - 09:53 AM

The QT17 was also designated 1666. It used a different switch due to engine (Kohler with magneto) not having battery ignition.

If it isn't the switch, then it has to be a bad wire or wrong hookup on reg. Doesn't it?


All QS and QT series tractors use the same 1721409 ignition switch.
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#7 Paulgo OFFLINE  

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Posted August 02, 2016 - 10:17 AM

All QS and QT series tractors use the same 1721409 ignition switch.

Well shoot... I don't have access to my parts book, but remembered that the 16 and 17 were wired different. Shouldn't have assumed switch was different....


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#8 chieffan ONLINE  

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Posted August 02, 2016 - 10:34 AM

I got rid of that friction tape and wire loom stuff so I could get at the wires individually.  Started to check for continuity between each wire at the switch and ground.  Traced it back to the reg/rect which had the stator hooked up.  Removed the stator wires and the short was gone.  Checked between the two stator wires and checked good.  Checked each stator wire to ground and showed continuity, a dead short between each stator wire and ground.  Got a shorted stator.  :wallbanging:    :mad2:    :deadhorse:  I suspected this before and pulled the engine and removed the stator and checked it good.  Found it to be OK.  Put the engine back in, checking as I hooked things up and all was OK.  The short came back while driving it.  Have another stator out of a blown engine that test's good so will put that one in and see what happens.  Darn intermittent shorts can be a real PITA.  One thing positive.  I know how to remove and replace an engine in about 2 hours now. :wave:


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#9 chieffan ONLINE  

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Posted August 02, 2016 - 10:38 AM

Well shoot... I don't have access to my parts book, but remembered that the 16 and 17 were wired different. Shouldn't have assumed switch was different....

I also found that the higher serial numbers were wired different than the low ones.  When I first started to trouble shoot this I found I was using a 1666 with the high serial number.  Lesson learned.


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#10 chieffan ONLINE  

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Posted August 02, 2016 - 12:39 PM

Got the motor all loose and lifted about 3".  Everything unhooked so no contact between engine and tractor.  Checked the stator wires again.  NO SHORT.  Seen where the wires were tight between the starter case and the tractor frame.  Hooked power back up and tried everything I could think of including pinching the wires with a pliers.  Could not get the stator to short.  Engine was rotated 1/2 turn for access to the drive shaft bolts but wouldn't think that would have anything to do with it unless a magnet came loose?  Going to switch stators and route the wires a different way and see what happens.


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#11 chieffan ONLINE  

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Posted August 02, 2016 - 06:09 PM

Motor is back in with a different stator.  Everything is bolted down and electrical connections made except for the battery. So far, no shorts.  Will finish up in the morning and see what happens.  Hopefully the stator will charge OK.  It is untested as the donor motor was blown.   Hopefully this time around it will work like it is supposed to.  Just a point of interest, the rep from the company I got the replacement reg from said the correct way to hook up a reg/rect is to have the battery disconnected from the machine, then install the unit starting with the anchor/ground bolt, the the wires.  That is the route I took this time around. 
The tough part now will be to hook up the fuel line with the fuel pump and all.  Kind of tight quarter under there.


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#12 chieffan ONLINE  

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Posted August 03, 2016 - 10:30 AM

Tractor is up and running, charging and all.  Wire ties to hold the wires together, anchor the home made gas tank down, strap the battery in place and can start putting the sides and hood back on.  This has really been a fight but I finally won - SO FAR.  Thanks for all the advise, suggestions and help on this.  All is much appreciated.  Now on to getting the deck blades to cut even.


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