Jump to content

Nominations for Tractor of the Month
Garden Tractors and Parts on eBay



Photo
- - - - -

Wisconsin S8D sputter - misfire

engine ignition

  • Please log in to reply
15 replies to this topic

#1 flyboy OFFLINE  

flyboy
  • Member
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Member No: 83309
  • 26 Thanks
  • 34 posts
  • Location: Petersburg, IL

Posted July 10, 2016 - 09:54 AM

I recently acquired a Wisconsin S8D, new - NOS - Never run! Sweet deal!! The engine runs fine (of course), however it has an intermittent "sputter" or misfire which is more pronounced at higher rpm's. Would a worn out (aged) points condenser cause this? I cleaned the points and set the gap for .015 Possible problem with the (aged) plug wire, this engine IS 46 years old. When I bought it there was a red tag on it saying to "Add Oil", there was NO oil in it. and the spark plug was clean (no carbon). there does't seem to be a fuel flow problem.  


  • Bruce Dorsi and MailmAn have said thanks

#2 boyscout862 OFFLINE  

boyscout862
  • Senior Member
  • Member No: 8923
  • 9,796 Thanks
  • 7,542 posts
  • Location: N.E. Connecticut

Posted July 10, 2016 - 11:33 AM

Man, you are very lucky to find that. Change the oil at one half hour run time(or less). Keep the speed way down for the first several hours. The proper break in of an engine is critical to its long life. I'd add Marvel Mystery oil to the gas and run it to 5 hours. Then change the oil. I'm thinking a valve may be sticking. Your ideas of points, wire, or condensor are possible also. Download the engine manual from our Manuals Section and follow the maintenance and troubleshooting instructions. Good Luck, Rick



#3 Bolens 1000 OFFLINE  

Bolens 1000

    DR. Bolens

  • Staff Admin
  • Staff
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 7
  • 12,696 Thanks
  • 17,206 posts
  • Location: Western NY

Posted July 10, 2016 - 11:47 AM

Could be your timing, gap on those are .018 to .020 thousandths

They actually recommended timing be set by a light but I seem to have good results with just the feeler gauge trick.

 

 

Any pics of this engine?


  • MailmAn said thank you

#4 flyboy OFFLINE  

flyboy
  • Member
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Member No: 83309
  • 26 Thanks
  • 34 posts
  • Location: Petersburg, IL

Posted July 11, 2016 - 06:32 PM

Man, you are very lucky to find that. Change the oil at one half hour run time(or less). Keep the speed way down for the first several hours. The proper break in of an engine is critical to its long life. I'd add Marvel Mystery oil to the gas and run it to 5 hours. Then change the oil. I'm thinking a valve may be sticking. Your ideas of points, wire, or condensor are possible also. Download the engine manual from our Manuals Section and follow the maintenance and troubleshooting instructions. Good Luck, Rick

Interesting! What you said about a sticking valve got me to thinking. I was wondering why I was hearing the misfire at the air filter and not the muffler. You are probably correct that the intake valve is sticking.  SO -  I have Sea Foam for a gas additive, but would it do the same thing as Marvel Mystery Oil. I guess it makes sense that a new engine that was stored (never run) for 46 years might get rust on the valve stem. You should have seen the air filter. OH - I guess you can - attached. I cleaned all the rusty stuff from the air filter out of the carb throat before I started the engine for the first time.



#5 flyboy OFFLINE  

flyboy
  • Member
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Member No: 83309
  • 26 Thanks
  • 34 posts
  • Location: Petersburg, IL

Posted July 11, 2016 - 06:32 PM

Interesting! What you said about a sticking valve got me to thinking. I was wondering why I was hearing the misfire at the air filter and not the muffler. You are probably correct that the intake valve is sticking.  SO -  I have Sea Foam for a gas additive, but would it do the same thing as Marvel Mystery Oil. I guess it makes sense that a new engine that was stored (never run) for 46 years might get rust on the valve stem. You should have seen the air filter. OH - I guess you can - attached. I cleaned all the rusty stuff from the air filter out of the carb throat before I started the engine for the first time.

The picture wouldn't upload



#6 KennyP OFFLINE  

KennyP

    FORDoholic

  • Super Moderator
  • Staff
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 2253
  • 28,461 Thanks
  • 39,690 posts
  • Location: Collinsville, Oklahoma

Posted July 11, 2016 - 07:12 PM

The picture wouldn't upload

Is it a .jpg or .jpeg?



#7 flyboy OFFLINE  

flyboy
  • Member
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Member No: 83309
  • 26 Thanks
  • 34 posts
  • Location: Petersburg, IL

Posted July 11, 2016 - 09:05 PM

Is it a .jpg or .jpeg?

Yeah jpg!   I'm going to try again Downloaded flash 9.



#8 flyboy OFFLINE  

flyboy
  • Member
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Member No: 83309
  • 26 Thanks
  • 34 posts
  • Location: Petersburg, IL

Posted July 11, 2016 - 09:16 PM

IMG_3999.jpg IMG_4053.jpg IMG_4046.jpg IMG_4048.jpg

Could be your timing, gap on those are .018 to .020 thousandths

They actually recommended timing be set by a light but I seem to have good results with just the feeler gauge trick.

 

 

Any pics of this engine?

Here are the engine before and after pics ( just added a paint job). The guy I bought the engine from gave me the longer fuel tank. He said that if I was going to mount the engine on a Bolens the longer tank would be more appropriate.


  • Bolens 1000, LPBolens, Bruce Dorsi and 3 others have said thanks

#9 Bolens 1000 OFFLINE  

Bolens 1000

    DR. Bolens

  • Staff Admin
  • Staff
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 7
  • 12,696 Thanks
  • 17,206 posts
  • Location: Western NY

Posted July 12, 2016 - 07:03 AM

Looks good,

If you need the correct governor assembly and muffler elbow for the Bolens setup send me a PM I stock them new.



#10 MailmAn OFFLINE  

MailmAn
  • Senior Member
  • Member No: 10315
  • 292 Thanks
  • 723 posts
  • Location: Albany, NY

Posted July 13, 2016 - 10:03 AM

Wow, nice find on that engine!  Where in the heck did you even manage to find an original NOS engine lying around that has never even been used once?  The paint job looks nice on it too.  Any reason you painted the flywheel fan shroud and the case and head white?  I believe the whole engine was originally supposed to be the cordovan brown color.  It still looks really nice though and the color combo actually looks good on it I think.

 

Do you still have the original gas tank that was on the engine before you swapped it out with the longer Bolens tank that came on the 850's?  That looks like it might fit on my TRA-10D engine in my Estate Keeper perfectly.  PM me if you are interested in selling it.  I'm sure it is in a lot better shape than the tank that was on my engine originally that was full of rust.

 

Also, what were the gauges/controls on top of the engine in the first picture?  Did it have its own key switch or other type of starter switch mounted on the engine?  Did it have an hour meter or a tachometer mounted on it or something?  I'm assuming this engine was designed and built to be used in like a generator or something with a setup like that and not put into a tractor.

 

Have you run it for any longer yet?  Like boyscout862 said, I'd try running it at like ¼ throttle for a half hour to an hour, then running it at ½ throttle for an hour or so, then going to ¾ throttle for a while, and then finally full throttle to see if it will free up the valves and everything and if it will smooth out and run better once it has been "broken in" a bit.  I know it is basically "new", but it has still been sitting unused with no oil in it for 40+ years!  Now all of a sudden you're trying to start it up and use it, so it's going to be a little cranky at first, lol.  Change the oil on it after the first 5-10 hours or so and try putting some STP Oil Treatment in it along with some straight 30W oil.  (The STP has ZDDP in it, which is a zinc additive that is good for these older engines.)

 

Let us know how you make out with it. 


Edited by MailmAn, July 13, 2016 - 10:06 AM.


#11 stiemmy ONLINE  

stiemmy
  • Senior Member
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 53712
  • 1,306 Thanks
  • 1,106 posts
  • Location: Freekin cold central WI

Posted July 14, 2016 - 12:38 PM

Great score!

Being the Engine is 46 years old Id almost be certain the condensor has dried up. Cheap place to start, while you are in there, the points are nos too, but can oxidize with age. I would use a points file, or light sand paper to clean the surface of the contacts.

You might even try a known good used condensor that you might have laying about. Toss it in, and try it. Cheers ;)
  • MailmAn said thank you

#12 flyboy OFFLINE  

flyboy
  • Member
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Member No: 83309
  • 26 Thanks
  • 34 posts
  • Location: Petersburg, IL

Posted July 14, 2016 - 06:02 PM

Wow, nice find on that engine!  Where in the heck did you even manage to find an original NOS engine lying around that has never even been used once?  The paint job looks nice on it too.  Any reason you painted the flywheel fan shroud and the case and head white?  I believe the whole engine was originally supposed to be the cordovan brown color.  It still looks really nice though and the color combo actually looks good on it I think.

 

Do you still have the original gas tank that was on the engine before you swapped it out with the longer Bolens tank that came on the 850's?  That looks like it might fit on my TRA-10D engine in my Estate Keeper perfectly.  PM me if you are interested in selling it.  I'm sure it is in a lot better shape than the tank that was on my engine originally that was full of rust.

 

Also, what were the gauges/controls on top of the engine in the first picture?  Did it have its own key switch or other type of starter switch mounted on the engine?  Did it have an hour meter or a tachometer mounted on it or something?  I'm assuming this engine was designed and built to be used in like a generator or something with a setup like that and not put into a tractor.

 

Have you run it for any longer yet?  Like boyscout862 said, I'd try running it at like ¼ throttle for a half hour to an hour, then running it at ½ throttle for an hour or so, then going to ¾ throttle for a while, and then finally full throttle to see if it will free up the valves and everything and if it will smooth out and run better once it has been "broken in" a bit.  I know it is basically "new", but it has still been sitting unused with no oil in it for 40+ years!  Now all of a sudden you're trying to start it up and use it, so it's going to be a little cranky at first, lol.  Change the oil on it after the first 5-10 hours or so and try putting some STP Oil Treatment in it along with some straight 30W oil.  (The STP has ZDDP in it, which is a zinc additive that is good for these older engines.)

 

Let us know how you make out with it. 

Thanks for your tips about the break-in procedure, I liked your comment about "40+ years it's going to be a little cranky at first". Yes, the engine wouldn't even start until somebody told me to clean the breaker points. When I first got the engine home I was looking it over trying to find any signs of carbon and the only thing I found on the top of the piston was rust, so I can imagine that the valve stems probably have rust on them as well, so I'm just going to go through the break-in period and let it clean itself up. 

 

The whole thing about the engine started with me trying to figure out how to put a starter on the original Briggs engine. In my search for a starter and brackets for the Briggs I called friend at a company in Michigan. I told him that I wasn't having much luck with that idea and was open to finding for Wisconsin S8D. He called me back the next day and told me to call this guy out in Pennsylvania that had a company Rock Creek consulting and was offering an S8D never used for $325. Well, that sounded real good to me since the Delco Remy starter/generator alone sells for $150-$200 if you can find them. So I drove out and picked it up.

 

When I got it home I obviously I didn't like the industrial battleship gray color so I started painting it with the same color I painted the hood and fender on the 650 (almond).  While I was doing that, the grass screen on the flywheel pulley had to be straightened so I removed it, fixed it and painted it the the same color as the frame of the tractor (leather brown, I couldn't find any cordovan brown). I thought that looked kind of nice and I really didn't want to white wash the engine, so I painted the air cleaner  and gas tank the same leather brown. The tank had to be painted because I had have it boiled out. To me the engine is a very important part of the tractor so why hide it by painting at the same color as the frame.

 

Yes I still have the tank that was on the engine when I bought it and I really don't have a need for it, make me an offer. But I will tell you that I had to use the bracket from that tank to mount the long tank because bracket that came with the long tank placed it too high above the engine and the hood wouldn't close.

 

The controls at the top of the engine were/are ammeter, kill switch and starter button. And I used all of those on the 650 since 650 never had any electrical stuff in it. Another part of the sweet deal that I got. All in all everything worked out very nicely and just today I finished the two month project of restoring 650 and electrifying it. it has been a real fun project, I kind of hate to see it i end, BUT, I really need to clean up my 1455!  Man, I beat that thing to death and it just keeps running, but it gets real messy. I have been using (and abusing) the 1455 since I acquired it in 1977.

 

Once again thanks for your advise and questions! 

 

BTW? Does well the zinc additive in STP help engines that were manufactured to run on leaded gas?



#13 flyboy OFFLINE  

flyboy
  • Member
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Member No: 83309
  • 26 Thanks
  • 34 posts
  • Location: Petersburg, IL

Posted July 14, 2016 - 06:08 PM

Looks good,

If you need the correct governor assembly and muffler elbow for the Bolens setup send me a PM I stock them new.

My My!  Your comment above makes me wonder "do I have the correct governor assembly?" I didn't know there was a difference, BUT, I only seem to be able to get 1600 rpm max and the Wisconsin spec's state that max rpm for a S8D is 3600. 



#14 Bolens 1000 OFFLINE  

Bolens 1000

    DR. Bolens

  • Staff Admin
  • Staff
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 7
  • 12,696 Thanks
  • 17,206 posts
  • Location: Western NY

Posted July 14, 2016 - 08:13 PM

The assembly you have on there was common on engines meant to run at a set speed I believe and throttle was manually controlled.

Wisconsin shows the governor rods used on the disc assembly to be 2800 to 2900 RPM's

 

The other style was found on all the Bolens models , where a throttle cable could attach


  • 29 Chev said thank you

#15 flyboy OFFLINE  

flyboy
  • Member
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Member No: 83309
  • 26 Thanks
  • 34 posts
  • Location: Petersburg, IL

Posted August 18, 2016 - 06:03 AM

Looks good,

If you need the correct governor assembly and muffler elbow for the Bolens setup send me a PM I stock them new.

Hey Doc!  I finished the restore on the 650 yesterday and ran the engine under a mower load. It worked great!  NOW -- with a load on the engine it runs at a very stable 1500 to 1600rpm at full throttle (throttle plate/disk against the stops). I think these Wisconsin S8D's have a max rpm of 2900. SO -- my question is what governor linkage parts do I need to push the rpm's up to operational speeds? Yes! This is the NOS engine I bought and YES! The engine gov. linkage seemed to be set up for a fixed speed.  It mows just fine at those rpm's but does have a tendency to load up in tall grass.







Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: engine, ignition

Top