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Intermittent starting problem on Ariens GT20


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#1 Semcx OFFLINE  

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Posted June 19, 2016 - 09:52 PM

Hello Everyone,

I’m having an intermittent wiring problem on my Ariens GT20, Model 931034 Serial 005147. Sometimes its starts and sometimes it doesn’t, right now it doesn’t start. I think I’m pretty good at wiring but far far from the best LOL. What I have found so far is the relay on the right side of dash while sitting in the seat has 6V to one of the white wires at all times (I think it should be 12V) When you turn the key on the yellow wire energizes the relay and you should get 12V to the other white wire that goes to the ignition. My 6V goes to 0V on both white wires. My question is where does the 6/12V on that white wire come from? If you look at the wiring diagram for this model its showing the 12V is coming from the yellow wire through the coil that energizes the relay, to me that doesn’t seems right.

Any and all help will be greatly appreciated

Thanks

Hugh



#2 shorty ONLINE  

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Posted June 20, 2016 - 05:24 AM

I am not real familiar with the wiring on that model. What you are describing reminds me of an occasional failure of the safety circuit. The 6 volt puzzles me tho.


.

Edited by shorty, June 20, 2016 - 05:36 AM.

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#3 Alc ONLINE  

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Posted June 20, 2016 - 05:47 AM

Sounds like you have some connections that need cleaning or replacing . Are you checking voltages with a DVM ?  If you are you might leave it hooked up then touch the wire wit an old fashion test light and see if the voltage drops from 6v to zero with just the load of the test light



#4 Semcx OFFLINE  

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Posted June 21, 2016 - 03:48 AM

I'm using a Fluke DVM. I'll try a test light tomorrow and post pictures of the wiring diagram, plugs and relay. In the past when I've had low voltage and a lost of voltage when something is energized its a ground or loose connection somewhere but I haven't found it so far. I jumped the seat switch, gear selector, front and rear PTO switch and I'm still getting the same problem. I also took the ignition switch off of my working Ariens GT19 and put it on the GT20 but still having the same problem.



#5 Alc ONLINE  

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Posted June 21, 2016 - 05:20 AM

Fluke is the brand we use at work . Good meter but sometime I've been fooled because they don't load the circuit enough as when it's energized  or with a test light on low current ones . On my son's tractor this year ,,started right up brought it in to change the blades . Got done and no start !  Found the fuse connector corroded/melted  feeding just about the whole tractor .



#6 Semcx OFFLINE  

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Posted June 21, 2016 - 10:49 PM

Haven't had time to work on the wiring problem this week but I'm off the next three days. A few pictures of the wiring I'm working on. I'll recheck the fuses tomorrow and post any updates.

 

This is the wiring diagram showing the relay for the ignition. I'm really confused because it's not showing where the relay is getting the 12v for the ignition.

 

Wiring Diagram for Ignition Relay
 
Ignition relay, terminal with white wire on outside has voltage at all times.
 
Relay For Ignition
 
Ignition wiring connector showing white wire coming from center terminal of relay.
 
Ignition Wire from Relay

 

 

 
 

 



#7 shorty ONLINE  

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Posted June 22, 2016 - 05:11 AM

This relay, is it the interlock module where the safety circuit comes back? That is what I am thinking from your description. The module could have failed or a switch failed.
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#8 Alc ONLINE  

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Posted June 22, 2016 - 05:18 AM

Not sure if the relay is supposed to be power to run or like Shorty mentioned some type of safety . I'm sure there are members whom will be able to explain it  



#9 shorty ONLINE  

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Posted June 22, 2016 - 05:30 AM

If it is the interlock, power comes from the switch and goes thru the safety circuit and back to the switch. Then it is a separated circuit thru the switch going to the mag. One other thought, check ignition switch terminals for corrosion.
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#10 KennyP ONLINE  

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Posted June 22, 2016 - 07:05 AM

Don't know if this will help folks or not, but the service manual for this tractor is here. And I did a screen shot of the whole electric diagram.

ScreenShot019.jpg

 

ScreenShot020.jpg

 

I'm seeing a number of diodes in this.


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#11 Wm McNett OFFLINE  

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Posted June 22, 2016 - 06:17 PM

Your gt19 is a battery points and has a different ignition switch than your gt20.
It's been a while since I've looked at the book, but if my memory is correct.
That 6th "I" terminal supplies power to the coil on the 19 in start and run. Supplies power to the relay in the off position on the 20.

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#12 Wm McNett OFFLINE  

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Posted June 22, 2016 - 06:22 PM

Starting on page 19 is the electrical, Starting on page 52 is the electrical troubleshooting
http://apache.ariens...als/000127A.pdf

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#13 Semcx OFFLINE  

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Posted June 22, 2016 - 10:31 PM

Hello Everyone,

I would like to thank everyone for all the help and suggestions.

So you guys are correct, the relay in question is just a kill switch for the ignition. So today I had time to remove every switch, relay, and diode. I tested and cleaned every terminal. I found no bad parts so I put everything back together and the engine started right up. So time will tell if the problem was a dirty terminal or if the intermittent problem comes back.

So my next question is when a Mag goes bad, will one day it work and the next day it doesn’t? Or can it be intermittent?

Thanks Again


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#14 Semcx OFFLINE  

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Posted June 23, 2016 - 09:45 PM

Well the excitement of a running tractor only lasted one lap around the yard, back to the drawing board.


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#15 Wm McNett OFFLINE  

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Posted June 23, 2016 - 10:14 PM

Those coils are normally good or bad, but my dads would get hot and start acting up.

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