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J.D. 110 STARTER GENERATOR, DID I HURT IT ? HELP ! ! ! !


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16 replies to this topic

#1 MrMarty51 OFFLINE  

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Posted June 16, 2016 - 05:13 PM

Pre 68 JD 110 tractor.

I got new armature and field windings. I had the pole shoes to the wrong windings. The one with the notch has to go to the ARMATURE windings. Got that figred out and now the starter side of the generator works great.

Now, for the real problem.

Most of what I had read says that to polarize the generator to touch the armature terminal to the battery. Well, the armature terminal is already hooked to the battery through the solenoid so I did not do that polarization.

After I got the engine running I tested voltage at the battery, less than bat. voltage.

I hope I did not goof this thing up by not polarizing before I tried to start it.

Can anyone tell Me if I did, or not.

I thought that being these are a starter generator that polarizing these might be different than polarizing a regular generator.

I guess I need some guidance to, someone to tell Me if I goofed it up, ruined a regulator or if there is a different method for polarizing the generator/starter.



#2 boyscout862 ONLINE  

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Posted June 16, 2016 - 05:23 PM

What does the Kohler Manual say? I've never had to polarize an S/G. My big Fords need it occasionally. I'd check and clean the connections and test it again. If the voltage is low go through the troubleshooting guide. I always suspect the voltage regulator. Good Luck, Rick


Edited by boyscout862, June 16, 2016 - 05:24 PM.

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#3 grattone ONLINE  

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Posted June 16, 2016 - 08:29 PM

Disconnect the field wire from the regulator, tap battery positive to the field terminal on the Generator. ( don't hold on the terminal, should see sparks ) Now reconnect field wire back to reg. start it and it should charge..

Good luck

Gratton


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#4 MrMarty51 OFFLINE  

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Posted June 16, 2016 - 09:02 PM

Disconnect the field wire from the regulator, tap battery positive to the field terminal on the Generator. ( don't hold on the terminal, should see sparks ) Now reconnect field wire back to reg. start it and it should charge..

Good luck

Gratton

Thank You very much.

Worked like a charm. Battery voltage is at 12.27 and with the engine on high idle it is charging at 12.50.

What a relief it is.


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#5 MrMarty51 OFFLINE  

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Posted June 16, 2016 - 09:04 PM

What does the Kohler Manual say? I've never had to polarize an S/G. My big Fords need it occasionally. I'd check and clean the connections and test it again. If the voltage is low go through the troubleshooting guide. I always suspect the voltage regulator. Good Luck, Rick

I do have a manual for the K series Kohler engines. I will be getting one for the J.D. 110 very soon.

The Kohler manual does not have anything about the starter/generator or the regulator.

The wire harness and all the terminals are new. Just got done building that, after I got the new armature and windings for the generator/starter.


Edited by MrMarty51, June 16, 2016 - 09:06 PM.

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#6 GWest OFFLINE  

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Posted June 17, 2016 - 04:55 AM

This older Kohler manual covers the starter/generator

http://www.wheelhors...-sm-1972-hrpdf/

 

Garry


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#7 MrMarty51 OFFLINE  

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Posted June 17, 2016 - 11:39 PM

Thank You very much Gary.

O now have it, all of them.



#8 boyscout862 ONLINE  

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Posted June 18, 2016 - 04:24 AM

Thank You very much.

Worked like a charm. Battery voltage is at 12.27 and with the engine on high idle it is charging at 12.50.

What a relief it is.

That sounds low. Does the voltage increase when you give it throttle?


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#9 MH81 ONLINE  

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Posted June 18, 2016 - 06:36 AM

For the next guy, the regulator can cause this as well and it can look to be working.
A quick points filing of the contacts will do it a world of good and making certain there is a good chassis ground on the mount points (paint, rust, old) will save you a lot of headaches and make for a stronger charging unit.

Make certain you pull a batt terminal off before working on it.
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#10 grattone ONLINE  

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Posted June 18, 2016 - 07:07 AM

If you want to check the output of generator, short your field terminal to ground with unit running and watch the amp meter (Don't put a long short on it hold it    a second or two then remove it) the regulator grounds the field to increase the charge. Cleaning contacts and checking connections are important also, doing what I suggest is troubleshooting not a cure. RPMS are important along with a load drawing current, if the battery is charged and no lights etc. are being used there is not going to be much charging required.


Edited by grattone, June 18, 2016 - 07:16 AM.

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#11 MrMarty51 OFFLINE  

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Posted June 22, 2016 - 07:40 PM

That sounds low. Does the voltage increase when you give it throttle?

 

I will check that and get back with You. I believe that I did have it throttled up but I can not remember for sure.

 

For the next guy, the regulator can cause this as well and it can look to be working.
A quick points filing of the contacts will do it a world of good and making certain there is a good chassis ground on the mount points (paint, rust, old) will save you a lot of headaches and make for a stronger charging unit.

Make certain you pull a batt terminal off before working on it.

 

OK, it will be a little while but I will pull and check the regulator.

I did install a newly built wire harness, all terminals are soldered, all points of contact were scrubbed clean with a wire brush and or sand paper, bright and shiny.

I also built new battery cables, used a right angle die grinder and sanded the alternator tensioner bracket where the old negative battery cable was grounded. even shined up the contact surfaces of the nut that holds it down.

That to that voltage regulator is a terrible experience. :rolling:

IMG_2560.jpg

 

If you want to check the output of generator, short your field terminal to ground with unit running and watch the amp meter (Don't put a long short on it hold it    a second or two then remove it) the regulator grounds the field to increase the charge. Cleaning contacts and checking connections are important also, doing what I suggest is troubleshooting not a cure. RPMS are important along with a load drawing current, if the battery is charged and no lights etc. are being used there is not going to be much charging required.

 

No amp meter on this, only a non functional generator indicator light. Will the multimeter set on 20V DC show the increase in charge ?

 

 


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#12 MH81 ONLINE  

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Posted June 22, 2016 - 07:43 PM

Doesn't the light need to.work or the system doesnt?

#13 MrMarty51 OFFLINE  

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Posted June 23, 2016 - 09:07 AM

With the engine not running, battery voltage was at 12.27 volts. Started the engine, set it on a throttle about 3/4s open, voltage at 12.27.

Put the battery tester to it. Drew battery down to 11.75, once again fired it up, set throttle to about 3/4s open, voltage was again at 12.27.

After running then shutting down the engine, battery voltage is at 12.25. I did not run it very long, just enough to get the voltage readings.

So, I would guess that the generator is charging but that the voltage regulator, as MH81 suggested, that the points within the regulator are needing cleaned.

I will also do the field test and see what the generator is doing voltage wise.

Thank You all for responding. My life with the generator systems began very early in My teens but then I got slightly older, generators were fazed out and the alternator systems then became the norm.

I love learning this old stuff.



#14 MrMarty51 OFFLINE  

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Posted June 23, 2016 - 05:21 PM

Doesn't the light need to.work or the system doesnt?

I too was wondering that. I did check on getting a new lamp, them things are expensive.

I figured out a way to repair the old lamps housing.

From a wire harness that I removed from a 1959 Dodge D100, I took off one of the dash lamp sockets, with a little modifying to the Dodge socket and removing the insulator from within the tractors lamp socket, I was able to place the dodge socket within the tractors socket. Used and insulating washer to keep the Dodge socket from making contact to the tractor socket and a piece of hear shrink for added insulation around the Dodge socket then another piece of heat shrink around the tractor socket and onto the Dodge socket that protrudes from the base of the tractor socket to hold it all into place.

I think it will work very well.

IMG_2565.jpg IMG_2566.jpg



#15 MrMarty51 OFFLINE  

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Posted June 23, 2016 - 05:29 PM

I thought I did such a good job on cleaning connectors, One connection that I did miss. The battery tray, all rusted where it attaches to the dash pedestal, The voltage regulator has a ground strap built onto it. there is no way that the regulator could be getting any sort of a ground through all that rust.

Going to clean that up real good and also add a ground strap from the regulators grounded mount to the battery.

As suggested by MH81, I will also file the points of the regulator. I want this to be right when it is all back together.

Also, the new/old stock starter solenoid would sometimes act like it was weak, sort of making a bussing frying sound, that too is getting changed out, whilst this is apart. :rolling:

I do not want to have to keep taking it apart and putting it back together. :rolling:






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